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 Setting up PZC's

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mjock



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PostSubject: Setting up PZC's   Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:02 pm

I recently acquired a number of PZC units. The room I use is a family room. So it is not dedicated listening room. The room is about 19.5 feet by 15 feet by 7 feet 5 inches height. Where is the best place to start with this?

Thanks
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:50 pm

Hi M

Welcome to Tuneland Exclamation

The PZCs are a very cool product because of their wood fronts. Not only are they barricades and burners, they are also room voicers.

Here's the typical starting place



With you having a shared purpose room you might want to give us a few pictures or even drawing of your place so we can see where some good places are to tune.

Here's what M has in stock, 2 FLOOR stand, 3-19x19, 12- 19x8 and 12-12x36

Do these have a painted front or natural cherry front?

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mjock



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:09 pm

Have the painted ones. Have sent some pictures. One of the challenges is the bay window on right side of the room. The PZC's that you have in the corner are they the mini echoes?

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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:26 pm

Yes, the mid-seam are Mini Echo Controllers and the upper corners are Mini Corner Controllers. However this doesn't mean you have done a bad thing by putting the 36" wall mounts there. The 36" of course have more burn so you will have to see which you like better there. Also you have Ceiling controllers. One above your seating slightly in front of your ears, maybe a foot in front of your ears, might do miracles.

BTW I like the size of your room!

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mjock



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:56 pm

Now because of the bay window I am unable to put anything near the ceiling for the majority of the right wall. How do I work around that? Also both left and right rear corners are not able to be treated because of doorways. Any and all input would be appreciated.
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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:26 pm


Hi mjock

Welcome to the Tune!

Nice system -- what are those speakers?

Looking at your room dimensions and the pictures, your room is likely to be less problematic than mine given the low ceiling. I am battling the effect of a high ceiling and hard walls and ceiling.

Bay windows give nice views. A bay window can hand us two problems -- the glass is a high-pass filter and the angled, set back construction often gives a cavity effect/resonance.

Does your soundstage suffer drift of centre images or mono sources to the right or left?

If you set your system to mono or played a true monophonic recording is the frequency balance and soundstaging (yep, mono got soundstaging too) the same for both speakers, both sides of the room?

What musick do you most often listen to?

Again, welcome!

Sonic
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mjock



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:54 pm

Hi Sonic,

Speakers are Salk HT3's, I really like the sound they give. And they do disappear.

Music tastes are mostly Classical and Jazz, though I do listen to other Genres.

I will have to check out the last questions have not tried and mono listening. Not entirerly sure I am able to without finding a mono recording.

Mark
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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:15 pm

Hi Mark

Have you put a 36" on the window bench yet? If you put it about where the flowers are you will hear a lot of the energy off the bay burn. You can try it on it's side and standing up to see what you like best.

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mjock



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:32 pm

When mounting these things to the wall is there considerations that need to be made. Do they need to be tight to the wall? Is the any distance they need to be from the ceiling, I come from a machinist background. I guess it shows.

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mjock



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:37 pm

Michael,

When you say put on the bench, do you mean lay it on it's back? Or on its side?

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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:49 pm

It's a matter of taste, but I like the PZCs semi-snug to the wall (it does make a big difference so playing with this till you get the sound you want is good). Some of the masters of tuning share their ideas on this in the TuneLand Archives www.tuneland.info . The 36" would be on it's side with the burner facing the glass, but try it both ways.

Also as far as how close into corners, the further they are from the corner the more energy gets in behind them. That is until they are too far out then they are grabbing more laminar flow than corner loading. Did you get corner mounts with yours? Most people mount them on a 45 when using in the corners and flush on the main walls, but I like to experiment.

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mjock



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:00 pm

I did get some corner mounting hardware. I have no instuctions for them.

What I mean when mounting on the walls is the center portion of the room. I am guessing by what you say is there is some leaway in how close they would be mount to the ceiling. I hate to put a bunch of holes in my walls. Smile

Also there no way for me to mount even a mini above the window, any suggestions on what I might do to balance things?

Thank you,
Mark
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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:31 pm


Hi mjock

You could use a stereo recording and hit the mono switch on the amp and see what happens. Ideally the image should be tight and focussed in the centre though all frequency ranges.

Sonic has encoutered rooms where a mono jazz band can have the brass and piano properly centred but the cymbals or bass can play off to one side or the other. Something like this indicates the room needs tuning to fix the imbalance. A big defocussed centre image is another thing that will need work if it is present.

Sonic
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mjock



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:51 pm

Thanks a bunch Sonic, this is the kind of nut and bolts I am looking for. I do not have a mono switch on the amp, and I am running the amps straight from the DAC.

But what you describe tells me what to look for once I get some mono signal setup. I think I will hook my turntable up, the phono preamp has a mono switch. Now I know what to look for.

With the panels I have setup up I am just amazed. I basically only have the pzc's on front corners and a floor stand center front and back. And when listening to Classical music I am hearing sooo much more of the hall it is quite excellent.

Mark
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:11 pm

Hi M

Oh, I thought you were referring to the tension to put on the screws and key hole. Some folks have gotten a couple of EchoTunes or RT Squares to use for placement guides before putting up their PZCs. This way there are only pin holes while playing.

If you don't have space above the window you can ceiling mount a MEC (mini echo controller). It will whip out the horn effect coming off the top of that area.

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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:16 pm

What I have noticed in my room is Classical has really opened up. But vocals that sounded like they were right there in the room have become veiled. They are not as clear. Any suggestions?
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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:43 am

As you open things up you can also hear some of the blockage that you are getting from other things in the system. You could be over burning with the tunes but I suspect (from looking at your system) that you are hearing blockage within the signal path itself. Almost everyone who opens up the size of their sound hears this same effect until they free up their signal.

At what point in your tuning did you first hear the veil?

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mjock



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:18 pm

It seems to start when putting the center front wall mini echo up.

Again Classical is outstanding, I added one at the bay window and accross from it and I listened to some Jascha Heifetz and I could have listened all night long.
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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:43 pm

Hi M

If you get a chance, take me some pictures of how things are now. I'm glad classical sounds great. Nothing like listening to classical on a big stage.

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:42 am


Hi mjock

A point for Sonic to raise -- when Zonees/Tunees talk about focus, it is different from the audiophile idea of everything squeezed into a singularity -- that is, a tiny point of sound with no width, depth....just a mere pinprick.

In Sonic's experience, a focussed mono reproduction of a voice, a violin is small but has dimension all round. 3D. The high, mid and low ranges are correct in relation to each other and it sounds like a small, focused version of a real source. The audiophile version of focus is something that never occurs in reality which is a tiny point source and if you listen carefully, notes and tones will be gone. What remains is even less than a shadow of the real thing.

I have heard that mono can reproduce a sense of width. It does. Sonic has reproduced it in my dwelling.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:04 pm

Thanks for the pics, could you get the rest of the room for me so I can see what you have done around the window as well? thanks





Also, what is in the left corner?

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PostSubject: Re: Setting up PZC's   Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:46 pm

The pics are where I have the PZC's. I don't have any around the window or elsewhere.
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