Michael Green Audio Forum

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net
 
Our Website  HomeHome  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Michael Green
Admin
avatar

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-09-12
Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

PostSubject: Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:16 pm

Hi TuneLand

Who would have ever thought we could have a true audiophile product for $29.00 let alone it being my reference music playing source. If your suffering from digital fatigue let me tell you that there is no need. By weird chance magnavox came out with a compact DVD player that has become my absolute favorite sounding player ever. When I say favorite I mean "at any price". Call me crazy if you would like but I have heard this player take on all comers and make High Ends DACs sound like canned toys. Someday somewhere there will be something better, but for now you are nuts not to pick up one or several of these.



Audiophiles for years have complained of digital jitter and the fatigue that digital recorded music has. I challenge those statements and say it is because High End Audio engineers do not understand the mechanics of materials. Their playing with numbers instead of taking the time to understand how signal passes through parts made of different materials and how the signal itself needs to dissipate naturally as an energy source while carrying and passing audio language. High End Audio has made big mistakes in this area and over the years companies like Magnavox, Sherwood, Samsung and others have designed products knowingly or not that are fantastic signal hosts. I, unlike my audiophile designing colleagues am not tied to the idea that $$$$ means performance. I'm not attached to faceplates and wowed by reviews. it doesn't take much to experience true music reproduction, but it does take a different mindset than that which has been praised over the last 40 years only to end up with tiny soundstages and brittle lifeless sound. music is expansive and vibrant. So vibrant that our recording engineers can not give you the entire dynamic range without damaging your system. Simplicity is the key to great sound as StereoPhile's Sam Tellig has said for years. I would suggest that the industry take this to heart and go further than even Sam has in his adventures. The question is "how simple is too simple"? The Magnazox tuned represents a good answer to this.

I base this thread on listening and the exploration of purifying the signal to the point of feeling the recording in the room with you like no other designer has ever done. Will they in the future? I certainly hope so and than some, but until then there's nothing like the tune.

_________________
michael green
PH 702 762 3245
Email mgtune@yahoo.com
Back to top Go down
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net
Michael Green
Admin
avatar

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-09-12
Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

PostSubject: Re: Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player   Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:17 pm

Because the maggie is so flexible there are many different ways you can tune it.

here's a bridge and then the bridge with top tuning from a canopy


_________________
michael green
PH 702 762 3245
Email mgtune@yahoo.com
Back to top Go down
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net
Michael Green
Admin
avatar

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-09-12
Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

PostSubject: Re: Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player   Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:26 am

So why does the Maggie sound so good? For me everything comes down to materials/vibration/tuning.



Obviously Magnavox/Funai/Philips know how to make DVD/CD players. They better since they pioneered the product and are the largest DVD player manufacture in the world. They are one of the masters of KISS (keep it simple stupid). Also who will question the quality of the space program. Bottom line is if they have figured out how to mass produce the finest sounding CD player with their reputation I'm pretty happy with that. It's not a matter of sound for these guys, it's a matter of marketing. For years the best of the best have had to figure how to sell to 3 markets with basically the same product. Names have been changed around and look appeal has been something they have had to deal with if they wanted to capture all 3, and they will be the first to tell you it hasn't been easy cause of perceptions. There were times they tried to fuse the names of their brands together but the buying public didn't go for it so they ended up going back to separate names. So for me at least I don't have a hard time at all believing the best can be built for $29.00. We should take it as a blessing and buy them up before someone changes the design. But if someone wants to spend 100 X the price of the best sounding player for something that is at least second place, Oh well Rolling Eyes . This will be one of the mysteries I will need to live with.

materials

The sound of wood has been recognized as one of musics best sounds. Wood has this magical tone quality and is able to focus on a narrow bandwith or expand to full range. But it's the richness of the harmonics of wood that has made instrument builders go to great lengths in their voicing of the finest instruments. I have been fascinated with tone since my first drumset and guitar. As kids we would gather by the piano to annoy our parents and pretend we were the next big band. Speakers for me even at 8 were instruments in my mind. I never made the separation between my cousin's heath kit and my guitar amp, or my speaker cone and kick drum. To me they all had the same job. The thing I did pay attention to though was the different sound of materials. Even though I was playing the same notes the difference between wood steel and plastic drums was dramatically different from each other. Something was up here and it made enough of a difference to me that I was in my first pro band at 13 and on my first tour by 15. Not only do we tune our instruments, but if we are into tone we really tune our instruments. I can remember guys coming into the studio or even at home playing with their equalizers, and I would show them how I could do the same thing only through voicing materials. the equalizer always won out because of time, but the hand voiced changes always blew away the EQ. Why? The EQ doesn't know tonality. The EQ is a volume control whereas materials have texture, body, timbre. Engineers freak out when they hear this because they are trained to be puppets. Puppets that call tone "psychoacoustics", and psychoacoustics must be related to distortion somehow.

Now follow me here cause this could change the way you view your stereo. All materials have tonal saturation. This means that a material has it's own set of frequency highs and lows across the frequency range. If you put a bunch of different materials together you have a blend of peeks and valleys. This is why when you hook up a stereo it usually sounds pretty bad. Lets face it an un-tuned system stinks. You can get a better sound out of a boom box set in a nice sounding corner than a system out of tune. Bose realized this long ago. So we know I like tuning wood but what about all the other materials? The strength that wood has in the tonal department is hard to find in other materials cause they have a different molecular structure. Some of them can simulate the sound of voiced fibers, and the tonal saturation is fairly evenly distributed but most of them tend to get peaky sounding unless the conditions are perfect. For example metals can get very fussy and very few can produce a full range spectrum of sound. Fortunately for us copper was widely used for electricity or we could have been in a real mess finding conductors that passed both electricity and audio signal. Ever hear some of the same parts we use with copper only replaced with other metals? Well you can live with it for a while but it will start making your skin crawl after time. You will start noticing how thin your music sounds. And how pitchy it is. At the same time too much copper can cloud the signal greatly.

Alright, now we have wood and copper. What about other metals or other types of materials? First let me say that we have to be very careful of 2 things when choosing materials. One is runaway notes and the other is note voids. For your stereo it is best to use materials that can host a wide frequency range. If you don't you will be tweaking forever cause there will always be an inbalance between what is missing and what you have too much of. It's far better to have materials that can develope propper tonal structures and then tune them into shape. This is why you see me saying "no dampening". Listeners typically way over dampen an already over dampened system and that leads to a very small soundstage with miniture instruments and performances. It's also how you get peaks in your system. Peaks are not formed by a frequency being amplified as much as they are by the surrounding frequencies having colapsed, making them sound like they are sticking out. Talk to a tunee and they will tell you that when their system is at it's best they need to turn down their volume control. This is because they have raised the volume of the notes around the fundimentals across the board instead of systems that need the volume turned up because their signal is missing.

_________________
michael green
PH 702 762 3245
Email mgtune@yahoo.com


Last edited by Michael Green on Wed May 29, 2013 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net
Michael Green
Admin
avatar

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-09-12
Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

PostSubject: Re: Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player   Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:25 am

In my last post I started to get into materials. When you look at a stereo's components you can see that you don't need a lot of material to make it work.




And it's true that less is best when it comes to a signal path, but equaly important is what the material is made out of and how it helps or hurts the signal transmit from one part to the next. You see signal vibrates and needs to vibrate. Some act like an audio signal is this magical thing that gets from one place to another without movement. Well the world is flat and standing still. Audio is motion and this motion does not go straight down the signal path. It vibrates and this vibration doesn't want to be cut short of it's life cycle. It's is energy and needs to act like energy to function at it's fullest potential. When we dampen the vibrating signal that is traveling and stop it short of completing it's natural cycle part of the signal comes up missing at the output end. If there is one area where High End Audio has blown it, it's here. If fact the longer we let a vibration dissipate without distorting it through dampening the better the music sounds. Metal chassis are notorious for creating harmonic distortions inside of components. They mess up the electromagnetic exchange that needs to take place between certain parts and the environment and make it impossible for signal carrying parts to escape the fields created. Shielding is a two way street and over shielding is one of the biggest problems for the signal path. In our industry we talk about electromagnetics as if they are floating energy sources waiting to interfere with our equipment, but the reality of it is hobbyist use too many components and don't know how to organize their cable. Their creating their own fields then they make it worse by enclosing their components so that the signal never has a chance to breathe. I use to think that separate components was to get away from the problem but over the years I have realized that separate components with multiple transformers are what is causing the problem. We have all these power plants smothering our signal and think the problem can be solved by making everything ridiculously thick so the interference can never get to it. This is backward from what the signal wants and needs to reproduce the real space, real size and real sound of a recording. Usually taking the top off of a component will set it free enough to tolerate but if the chassis is still interfering the rest of it should go.

_________________
michael green
PH 702 762 3245
Email mgtune@yahoo.com


Last edited by Michael Green on Wed May 29, 2013 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net
Michael Green
Admin
avatar

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-09-12
Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

PostSubject: Re: Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player   Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:37 am

Yes, I'm still on the topic of the maggie but I feel it's necessary to paint the picture completely. So if we should be using little material and thin jackets covering cables and parts, it's starting to look like maybe the parts we are looking for should be built out of light weight low mass vibrating materials? That would be correct! Don't think we're pulling this out of our theory hats either. I/we have spent years comparing parts, and if the goal is openness clearly the low mass parts are the way to go. Even on my highest end speaker (The Chameleon) when we switched out the highest of high end caps with the low mass caps the music jumped to life. It was like someone turned on the lights after living in darkness. After doing this change across the whole network the peaks and valleys all but disappeared. It also led to me changing my entire crossover designing philosophy. The opposite was also true. Adding over massed parts to the signal path in my electronics caused me to not only turn up the volume but the soundstage decreased. The effect is like squeezing the music. At first you think it's clean, but after a while you are aware that part of the music is missing and there are holes that appear like black spots in the stage. The sound also became 2D and thin, shifting to the upper frequencies and thinning out the base of the music and the bass itself. For me this is clearly opposite real music. I want clear but I want it inside of something that is present. I don't want to sit down and listen to something 2D when the rest of my life is 3D. I don't want my sound brittle and I don't want the sense that the recording is not filling the room or further more filling the house. Why should I have music in the next room sounding like a tin can.

Moving on, the parts are half the battle but if they are attached to dead sounding circuit boards how are they going to vibrate and disapate energy? Their not, if they don't dissipate they reflect and send the energy trying to leave right back up into the parts, causing them to have canceled signal. When comparing boards there is a huge difference between those hard, thick horrible sounding boards and the boards you can pick up, tap on and hear a nice tone. Again why would I think that signal can pass through things that sound bad? Why would I think that dead sounding, high pitched boards would not make the music shift up?

It's looking more and more like the Magnavox has everything we want from a mechanical point of view to pass a very musical signal. But come on cheap plastic chassis? Even if you like the sound of the parts and the sound of the circuit board you have it sitting in this cheap chassis. I use to think the same thing until I researched "cheap plastic". Plastic is made by the compound and filler. The least expensive of the plastics can have up to 50% filler. The most common filler used for the less expensive plastics? Paper. What is paper made from? Hmmm, I haven't taken my player on Bones to find out what the composition is nore do I care to, but looks like we have a true audiophile product that knows how to reproduce music from not only the act of listening but also the technology side.

_________________
michael green
PH 702 762 3245
Email mgtune@yahoo.com
Back to top Go down
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net
Michael Green
Admin
avatar

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-09-12
Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

PostSubject: Re: Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player   Wed May 29, 2013 7:46 pm

Some take the maggie down to the board and some leave it in it's shell or part of it's shell.



One problem with taking it all the way down is the unit if not perfectly level will chatter. Not hurting the sound but driving you crazy. When I take it all the way apart I usually have it in a separate room from my listening but when in the same room I leave it put together.

Here's one outside the room still in it's shell minus the top cover and tweaked.


_________________
michael green
PH 702 762 3245
Email mgtune@yahoo.com
Back to top Go down
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net
Michael Green
Admin
avatar

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-09-12
Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

PostSubject: Re: Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player   Sat May 30, 2015 3:55 am

Here's a pic of the Magnavox MDV2300 top tuned.


_________________
michael green
PH 702 762 3245
Email mgtune@yahoo.com
Back to top Go down
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net
 
Tuning the Magnavox DVD Player
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Tom Tom Resonant Head Tuning
» Hank Crawford Sax Player Dies at 74
» Youngest Ever Table Tennis Player + Multiball!
» New Pioneer PD-50 (Hibit 32 ) CD /SACD player
» Local(SG) Short Pips Player( Pen Hold).

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Michael Green Audio Forum :: Tuning and basic RoomTune setups-
Jump to: