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 tune trainee's System

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Michael Green
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PostSubject: tune trainee's System   Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:30 am

Glad to have "tune trainee" on board,

Here's his opening pictures,










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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:47 am

Ok were do I begin to make it sound better? I know there is a lot left to do. What can I change or adjust now to make it better? I will put the ma700 in the place of the B&K soon. Do I have the wood in the system set up for the best benefit?
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:58 am

Do me a favor if you would. Put some springs under the player (in-between the wood and the shelf) and tell me what you hear.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:38 am

Ok I tried the springs
I had not listened to my system since all the wood was put in and the cables plus now the springs but there is quite a difference. I notice that I have a much better image. Not just the center image with the singer but the instruments are very clearly defined. I was listening to Tigerlily by Natalie merchant and I could hear the slightest differences in how much she was putting into her words the tone of her voice changed as she would speak louder and more softly. The One thing I heard for the first time is that as she was singing it sounded as if she looked away for a moment during one of the songs and the sound reflected off the side wall a bit more. I have never experienced that before in the recording and I listen to the cd often.
Great stuff Michael
I was not sure if it needed to settle and break in but it was a very nice improvement from the first note with only a day break in on the cables and wood setup.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:54 am

Hi trainee,

Now the springs (ugly as they are) can go under your next lightest component. Don't go over 3 pounds per spring. Also have you started on your fuse box yet?

You might also want to get your cables off of the ground. If you need to screw a zinc hook into the wall that's OK, plastic hooks sound much better though, but don't use more than 2 hooks per side. If the tonal balance moves to the upper end when you put the hooks in then you will have to use grounds or use wood hooks on the wall.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:59 pm

My next lightest component would be the pre amp. Putting a set of springs under it will be next. The fuse box was adjusted about 3-4 days back so that should be toward the end of the break in. Will look into picking up some hooks for the wires next.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:27 pm

the pre amp had more weight on one side than the other. I took one of the springs from the cd player to balance out the weight so the unit sits level. I have the cd player set up like a tripod paturn. Would this work as well as all 4 corners suported?
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:41 am

Yes,

Let me know when you need more springs. Their not tempered so they don't hold a lot of weight but they sound pretty good and you can use more when you are balancing things like you are talking about with the transformers.

Good I'm glad to see you working on the fuse box!!

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:53 am

I need a bunch more wood and springs to take the cd player apart and put each piece on its own piece of wood. That will be a fun project. Send me a list of what you think I will need/want and the price and we can do that order soon.
Thanks again

Also if I have a piece of wood? Can I top tune with it by resting it on top with wood and springs? Do I need to have the ability to have a canopy or rack to make it work?
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:39 am

I picked up a bamboo rug it is about 2'6"x 4' were should I put it to get the best sound? I was thinking in front of the tv centered between the speakers.
What do you think Michael?
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:55 am

Hi TT,

Yes make this your first placement. Also tell me what happens when you take down the material behind you and have just 1 square up directly above/behind you where the wall meets the ceiling.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:22 am

I removed the materials from the back wall and put up the room tune square. The bamboo rug was placed in front of the tv. I notice there is considerably more sound coming from the back wall and the room is slightly louder at a given volume setting.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:30 pm

Hi tune trainee,

Ok let's give a listen to this a second. Our goal is to make the connection of the stage continuous from front to back (kind of like what you do inside of your car between rear an front speakers only with the rooms pressure). When this is achieved the stage will grow to real size. Real size and real space is when the sound moves out of that audiophile dampened world and into the real size of recordings. The hobby becomes a much bigger place to live in when this starts to happen. On tuneland we called it 2 speaker surround sound for lack of a better description. With this in mind it is good that you found this energy on the back wall. Where else do you think some energy might be hiding?

Entering into a real size sound stage is a big step forward. you are able to get much more involved with the music and the room starts to disappear in the works. Your stereo actually becomes your whole room with everything making such a big difference to the sound.

open it up and tune it in!

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:20 pm

Hi Michael
I was able to get more surround out of my system by changing one thing. The first thing I did was take a set of cones that I had and put them under a wooden board then the springs, magic wood and cd player. This did help the depth and image noticeably. I am not sure why or if it should have worked this way? The interesting thing was as soon as it sounded better I felt that the speakers were over dampened and more polly fill needs to come out. It cleared up my system enough to find something else that needs tuning. I have a feeling that each time I get better in one area I will need to fix or change an other to keep a balance or improve that much more.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:14 pm

Laughing Yep, It happens this way. It's start with a couple of things then tuning takes over. Parts in the system that are locked into their own sound start to stick out like an instrument out of tune.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:05 pm

I have made a few changes this weekend to my system. First off I took apart the ma700 with the bad binding post and removed it as well as soldering on the speakers wires directly to the main board. It was easier than I thought it would be. I will do the same with the other amp to have balance. Used the binding post on one and the soldered connection on the other to test out the amps. Trimmed the speaker wires back so they are no longer coiled up. I used the trimmed pieces from the wires to make a new interconnect from pre amp to the amp. Removed the extra shield on the rca connectors like the interconnects Michael makes. Removed the magnavox cd/dvd player from its case and put directly onto some magic wood. Last thing was to remove the foam from my cones that supper the cd/dvd player.

I have removed a bit of mass from the system and can't wait until it settles a bit to listen to it!
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:32 pm

Last night I removed the binding posts on the second amp and soldered the speaker wires onto the board.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:03 pm

Hi T,

The quick burn in process should be a fun one.

By now you should be able to hear more energy coming through, however the burn in will kick in about a week from now.

Let us know what you are hearing now with these changes. Step by step listening with this big of a change is fascinating to hear. It's one of the things I enjoy the most.

watching and waiting

this is so much fun

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:16 pm

I hear more clarity than I did before. Each instrument has its own location and distinct sound. I had in the past been hearing the sounds run together at some points and did not know why or how to fix it. I also hear the singer and each instrument closer to me as I am standing in front of the stage as opposed to the back of the concert hall. I removed the balsa wood from under the cd player because it made the sound a bit thin and lifeless. The burn in is going well making the sound that much more real. My only complaint now would be that there seems to not be as much dynamic range as there was with my old cd player. What can be done to help with this issue? All things considered it has come a very long way in a short time!
Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:10 am

Hi T,

Top tuning will bring back the dynamic range. Also be sure to take new pictures as you do things as this helps me get inside the process.

As things burn in it is very common to have a loss of dynamic range until the harmonics realign again. As you learn the do-s of fine tuning dynamics won't be a problem to restore.

good stuff

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:14 am

Here are some of the latest pics











Tuning is all about opening up then tuning in. Many people make the mistake of tuning in before everything is opened up. This leads to the lowest fundamentals not having a good foundation. In "tune trainee's" case we have decided to go all the way down to the conduits themselves. This will be fun for and newbie tunees to follow.

It's cool to have Jbeard, Sonic, tune trainee, and others go through the process around the same time. As the sound stage explodes with new information it can be overwhelming to the ears. We get use to thinking that a sound stage is something that is in a box. When tuning the sound stage enters into the realm of real size. When I talk of real size this means that the sound stage is actually the same size of the real recording. dampening the signal is what makes recording sound small, when in reality we should not be able to tell what is a recording and what is real.

This will be fun to follow.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:31 am

tune trainee 10/10/09

"pictures of cord installation tonight"














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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:19 am

The B&K pre








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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:11 pm

Hi Michael and tuneland
What would be the next step for me as far as tuning? I was thinking of removing the transformers from the ma700's and purchasing some clamps for them unless you feel the spring poles would be a better mod for me. I would like to get the ma700's off of the rubber feet they came with.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:29 am

Hi tune trainee,

Something along this line might be in order.



This would be a dynamite setup! And would kick the you know what out of the mega dollar systems. I've done this exact configuration many times.

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