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 tune trainee's System

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Bill333

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed May 29, 2013 8:59 am

Hi Tune Trainee,

Per Michael's advice, I leave the system(s) on 24/7. This took some getting used to for me, as I'm used to having the house very quiet. But it means the systems are always in a playable state. It takes time for the system to reach vibrational stasis if you're turning it on from cold, so leaving it on means you have a steady state to work with while you're listening to the settling of whatever changes you've made.

I find it helpful to keep the number of variables at a minimum. Michael may be able to tell what part of the sound is a system warming up from cold, and what is from other factors, but I don't trust myself to make that kind of judgment. From what I've been reading here, it sounds like you're a very quick study with tuning. I'm sure you'll go far.

The good news is that the system can be at pretty low volume. You don't have to keep it playing at normal listening levels.
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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed May 29, 2013 12:18 pm

Hi Bill333 and Tune Trainee

Sonic understands and has experienced the effect of leaving a system playing for a day. it is as Bill333 describes but it is not something I do. In my thread the settling times are from actual music listening of about 3 to 4 hours per day.

Somehow, I feel leaving the system playing all day while I am at work is wasteful. It also burns away the useful life of my CD player laser. Those things last long but not forever.

Sonic


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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed May 29, 2013 12:45 pm

WOW Exclamation Shocked

I didn't know! I'll post on your thread about this sonic.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed May 29, 2013 6:06 pm

This is great to get everyone in on the conversation. My amps stay on 24/7 but the darn dvd player has 4 buttons that say repeat but none of the actually do it. I would guess it is giving me on screen "are you sure" or something that I can't acknowledge with out the screen. Since this is the case I listen for about 3-4 hours at a time best case scenario as well. The maggie should be here tomorrow and I will have it apart and rewired about as fast as humanly possible so the break in can begin!
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed May 29, 2013 7:13 pm

On the maggie the repeat will be easy. Hit the repeat button three times and it will go on auto play.

Also only take the maggie down to the top cover being gone and the screws loose and the power wire soldered on.

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Bill333

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu May 30, 2013 7:04 am

This is a fine point, but I used the Magnavox with a screen attached for a while and there's a procedure going on about setting it to repeat that everyone should be aware of.

There are 3 repeat modes: off, single track repeat and album repeat.The first time you press the repeat button, it does not change the mode, but puts the unit in repeat adjustment mode. On screen, this brings up the words: 'repeat: off' or whatever mode you are currently in. The mode will disappear in about 10 seconds if you don't press the repeat button again. Once you are in repeat adjustment mode, pressing the repeat button again advances you to the next mode in the cycle. If you were in 'off' mode and you press two more times, you will be in 'album repeat' mode. If you pressed repeat again, you will be back in 'off' mode.

I found that it can take the Magnavox a second or two to bring up the repeat adjustment mode and pressing the button too rapidly can cause it to lose button presses. So I always press the repeat button once, wait 3 seconds, then press the repeat button two more times quickly to put it in album repeat.

Pressing the stop button (square box) cancels the repeat mode and sets you back to 'off'. I hope you will find this helpful. Using a machine designed for use with a screen display can be a little tricky.
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tune trainee



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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Fri May 31, 2013 9:46 pm

When reading a thread that Michael wrote or a link not sure which I saw they were talking about a samsung p-241 dvd player and its qualities. This reminded me that was in in fact the dvd player I have been using. Once the maggie settles in will it sound similar or have a totally different flavor to the sound?
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Fri May 31, 2013 10:18 pm

The Magnazox removes the digital sound from the chain pretty much, so yes it is a different sound. The Maggie is thicker sounding with deeper bass, better focus and most of all more musical. The music pace is excellent with the Maggie. The 241 was a great player, very clean and detailed, a little shallow in the bottom in comparison, and a little thin as compared to the maggie. I guess what most are finding is the lack of that CD sound sound by going with the maggie. I have been fooled a few times when tuning in digital and would start to think I have replaced the very best of vinyl (very few times). The Maggie however introduces a realism for me that when tuned right doesn't let me miss putting up with vinyl.

For me the very best of vinyl or tape still is my fav, but obtaining that very best and only for a short time is not worth it for me. Some like the digital sound (I'm not one of them) and I have forever known that I need the long play of the source to achieve my music goals (can't put vinyl on repeat). I'm not crazy about the first or even second pass of any digital, but I do find that by the 3rd pass digital has something that certainly competes. In the same context to be fair there is only a small section on a LP that I enjoy listening to, it last for maybe 12 minutes. Outside of that range the sound to me is undoable and no matter how much I have tried to live with this it becomes a major hassle. All the prep for 12 minutes doesn't do me. I'm a whole music piece listener when all the dust settles. I like to get onboard the recording train and start at the beginning and go to the end. The 241 make me want to stop and tweak whereas the Maggie makes me want to listen for the long hall. Both are great units, but the Maggie has won my ears.

Doesn't mean it's for everyone though and maybe for the thinner listeners it may come across too liquid. So it is a matter of taste.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:18 am

Hi all
Spoke to Michael about taking my system to the next level. I was looking at cones for under each piece of equipment and asked what is the next step in tuning? I understand that there are tuning boards with spikes in a few different flavors to suit different needs. Michael said based on my setup that the uv type might be the best match. Thinking that the tuning boards sound like a great idea but I guess I need to ask if the cones compliment the boards or eliminate the need for them?
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:21 am

I use them in combo with each other. And, also with the magic wood pieces.

maybe something like

amp

wood

cone

wood

tuning board with spikes

wood

platform

Then, be looking for top tuning, but where will the rod touch?

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:21 am


Yes...Sonic has found that wood should be always placed between any two metal surfaces in the Tune.

eg: metal chassis --> MW wood piece --> cone top or Harmonic Spring -- > wooden shelf

This appears to be a near unvarying Tune rule just like "the hex nuts of a Tune Rack should be kept loose" or "face the wood boards of your PZCs into the room and towards the listening chair".
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tune trainee



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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:16 pm

The maggie showed up today before work. I removed the top and loosened the screws. This specimen has no scratching noise as it turns and sounds much better out of the box then the other one I had. I will rewire it and set it up for break in once I get home from work tonight.
Can't wait! bounce
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:41 am

I'm in the same mode as my Sherwood got here today. Cool

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:55 am

Michael what model Sherwood are you going to tune? Also I wonder how it compares to the ma700s? I would like to eventually set up a second system as time allows.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:36 pm

An excellent idea Exclamation Drives me crazy only having one system right now. I've been eyeballing my writing area to see how I can put one in here.

The Sherwood 4105 is a steal and can be made to sound many ways. It does remind me of a light weight 700 and I think can even be tweaked to bring out the bottom (like the 700's) with the right associated wood.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:05 pm

My maggie has been torn down and rewired. The break in is under way and man I can hear good things happening. The dbs are going up and settling is taking place. It might be time to have Michael work with me on the Abbey Road cd. I can't wait to move to the next level already. bounce
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:17 am

excellent Exclamation

Now you can hear what we were talking about. I'm hoping to get some writing time in before I leave on my trip. My own listening has become quite interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:49 pm

Hi everyone
Have been enjoying the break in process. The maggie is an interesting player. It has very little if any flavor to it. By not changing or flavoring the music, so much more of the music comes through. I love the detail and how the more delicate sounds can exist at the same time louder sounds can be present without getting steam rolled. One issue that comes back now and again is a shifting image. when the singer hits a lower note they shift to the right. I will have to spend some time on this issue. I wonder if I may have more or too much sound killing insulation in my paradigm studio 100s. I remember a few years back Michael recommended removing some and it made a dramatic improvement.
I am open to suggestions from anyone who may be able to help.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:48 pm

Hi TT

Would love to see new pics of your listening room, system and rest of the acoustical area. The shift can happen with either electrical or acoustical blockage. When ever I get these I look for the ways that I fix it in the past. Lots of stuff can do this.

Isn't it nice to have a soundstage big and open enough to even notice this Cool

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:03 am

I removed all the insulation sound killer from behind the tweeter, mid range from each speaker. The woofers have three chambers each filled. Removed the front and middle insulation but left the back chamber with the crossover still intact. After turning it back on the change was immediate and in the right direction. I checked to see what wood I was using and found that I had magic wood under the front of each amp but Brazilian pine under the rear of each. Must have ran out of wood back when the pre amp was in the system. Anyway time to listen some more once it settles but right off the bat I noticed I could put most anything in and get decent results were it was not very forgiving before.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:24 am

I read Michael's response to a different thread about directions speakers and foam sealing material.  I had to tear my speakers back apart and removed the foam seals behind the tweeters and mid range and took out as much insulation as I could get too in the speaker and darn it opened up a bunch.  I always assumed that the people who designed the speakers knew what they were doing when the built them but..... Why on earth would you need a 35 gallon trash bag full of insulation in each speaker.  What could they have been attempting to hide in the process?  This project as with others has me thinking.  I found under the  port there is even more insulation in side the speaker.  Is it imperative to get it out?  I need a game plan for the one since it would not come easy.  I am guessing glued just like the rest.  The next question is should I be removing the crossover and rewire it with the same wire I have in the rest of the system? seems like it could not hurt?

Thoughts on this?  I am open to suggestions.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:36 am

Greetings Tune Trainee!

Wasn't Michael's explanation on my thread great?  First time I heard directivity explained this way.

Sonic has helped an audiophile friend remove foam damping from the inside of an approx. 2 cu. ft Brit monitor.  The foam is to reduce or kill the backwave from the drivers and also to prevent cabinet vibrations which the designers think will colour the sound.

We took the foam out in stages and there was a noticeable improvement in openness, image size and a sense of ease.  It got better and better, then things went negative about the 80% removed point where a "honky" nasality started to be audible.  This colouration not surprisingly affected instrument texture severely.

We put a little of the foam back particularly on the cabinet wall facing the port and we got a much better and livelier speaker.

Your mileage may differ -- you might get to empty your cabinet completely and it might work.  Listen out for the first hints of the "awwww" colouration, a nasality and a thinness/emphasis on "clang" that turns a Bosendorfer into a honky tonk piano.

Ports are noisy things which is why so much damping is applied round them. So watch that area too Sonic would suggest.  We must remember that these speakers were designed with the stuff in and if the damping was to cover poor sounding wood in the cabinets or something, removal will start to show these flaws up. 

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:14 pm

Set that speaker free TT  Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:08 pm

I have been having fun with it for sure.  I love the way it sounds so I bumped up the volume some which is not as easy to do with no preamp.   I noticed that some where in the 95 db range the sound in the room sorta all just ran together (became noise not really music).  It reached a saturation point it would seem.  I normally do not listen at this level but I was getting into the music.  Is this something that should be expected or should I be looking into more or better room treatments?

Thanks again everyone for reading and as always feel free to comment.
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PostSubject: Re: tune trainee's System   Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:00 pm

Pics, I need pics Laughing You might be ready for FloorStanders (if you have room that is). Also if your listening that loud top tuning for sure.

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