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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:49 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:57 am


Hello Hiend001

You are in for lots of fun and good music with the Low Tone Redwood blocks. They are one of the best buys in audio Sonic made. Worth the price and much more they are.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:55 am

Hi Sonic,

Did you play around the weight of LT Blocks placement as what Michael hinted?

I'm going on dating with my LT Blocks this coming whole weekend  Laughing  Don't tell my wife OK  silent 
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:06 am


Nope. I approached applying Low Tone Redwood blocks in batches of the same weight range. So for example, if I needed 3 under an amp, I'll pick them of the same weight range rather than mix weights because the number of combinations will be too many for Sonic.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:32 am

Hi Michael,

Had put on 4 pcs LT Blocks (all light in weight) underneath Magnavox for past 4 days ago. Sound mellow but better separation and wider soundstage. The notes harmonics gone, cymbal no longer raining sound effect and there is no kick on the bass........ Sad 

Maybe the LT Blocks need more time to climatise my room environment and settling time. Maybe need more time on curing as I try to twist it slightly clockwise I could feel barely stick to the Player   tongue

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:03 pm


Hello Heind001

When Sonic first applied the Low Tone Redwood in my system, fortunately I didn't get any negative or subtractive effects like you are getting but my impression over the first few days was "err...OK....this is not bad...but I expected a lot more from what I understood from Michael...."

But bit by bit, day by day I heard tone and girth and then KAPOW! They work and Sonic cannot now imagine the system without them.

Also one of the applications of the Low Tone Redwood blocks in my system that produced bad effects was to have four Low Tone Redwood blocks under the CD (in my case Blu-ray) player.

Without top tune the sound developed an inner dullness, with top tune, it sounded wrong. In the end, the Low Tone Redwood blocks got applied in many places in Sonic's system but not anywhere near the digital playback.

The most startling improvement I got was three Low Tone Redwood blocks under my toroidal transformers and one on top. Add a Space Cone for flavor. This was really great.

How many Low Tone Redwood blocks do you have?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:08 pm

Hi Hiend

excellent!



The pictures will help alot. The first thing I see and hear is the LTR might be smothering the player. If you hear the sound loose the harmonics. I would take the wood closer to the edge of the player. On mine, I barely have the player on the Blocks. It looks like your player has been taken over by the blocks.

On the curing issue, the light weight blocks were the last ones done. Based on your description it sounds like the finish has a way to go yet. Arrrrggg Maybe I should have waited to send. Things cure so fast here. This is our fault. Harold and I communicated but he thought I said 42 were done, and I said 24 were done, oops. Therefore I made more. Do me a favor and start with the heavier ones first and give me a quick feedback on them in the same place if you would.

Your ears and sonics are going to be a big help for me to judge the curing of these for your area.

thanks, I want to keep a close ear on this

"But bit by bit, day by day I heard tone and girth and then KAPOW! They work and Sonic cannot now imagine the system without them."

Sonic, how many days did it take before they kicked in? Also the lightest weight ones Hiend has are lighter then the Blocks you have so we will want to keep a look out on this.

This is going to be very fun for me  Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:48 pm

Ok, here's some more stuff. I don't have your shelves, so I don't know the exact vibration transfer but you can also put zinc or brass washers under the Blocks. So it would be shelf, washer, block, player. I'm not going to keep mine that way but the transfer formula changed a lot when I just did this. What I noticed was that by placing something under the blocks gave another level of transfer between the blocks and the tuning board. I did this before but went back to listening to the wood on wood combo, but doing it now again opens up a whole bunch of things. I also use coins and mini brass cones.

I need to get this second listening room up for tests so I can go back and forth but maybe I can use you guy's ears too to choose some of the combos.

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:54 am

Hi Michael,

This morning jump in to have a quick listen without any changes make.

The raw power of lower frequency register has increased in volume. The bass guitar and drum sounds louder. The soundstage gets heavier therefore instruments spacing a bit choke. My chair vibrate more than yesterday.

Can you imagine just overnight it transformed 100cc engine sound to 1000cc engine sound of a motorbike.

Move all the LTR closer to the edge of the player

Two hours later. The raw power of the lower frequency register becomes cleaner with impact. The cymbal raining sound effect is slowly coming back. The soundstage is so much clearer and the tone is sweet   Smile 



I'm going to change all the LTR to the heavier ones. Will report later  Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:18 am

Very Happy 

"Can you imagine just overnight it transformed 100cc engine sound to 1000cc engine sound of a motorbike."

This is a good way to put it.

Another thing I just noticed is, I forgot to tell you about those particular blocks. When you look at them you will see a light side and a darker side. The lighter side is from the softer side of the tree and the darker side is getting into the more dense part. The blocks you have sound different when you flip them.

more to play with, have fun  Very Happy 

and they are fun

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:55 am


Hello Heind001

"But bit by bit, day by day I heard tone and girth and then KAPOW! They work and Sonic cannot now imagine the system without them."

From my notes it took me about 5 days at the start to be able to say this. I also read in my notes that about 6 weeks after the Low tone Redwood blocks arrived, application gave effects that were near immediate although even these got better with use.

Your Low Tone Redwood blocks have a way to go and you have a lot of improvement coming to your system. Congratulations!

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:12 pm

Hi Michael,

After change to heavy LTR:

Has to lower down my X-30 level. The bass note has better grip than before. Good pace and vocal forwardness  Smile 

Hope that down the road the LTR (only 5 days old) with my yet to come platforms will provide me an airy ambience soundstage  Wink 

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:09 pm

Hi Hiend

I want to keep a close ear on those harmonics and cymbals. It sounds like things are going as I would have thought, but I would like to know when things start going past what you have heard in the past. Especially in the areas of space and the harmonics and sound inbetween the notes. By the sound changes so far I'm guessing that the vibrations on the insides of the blocks are starting to form. As the voicing cures you will probably hear some clarity that may shock you a little. Almosts sounds like you are able to hear inside of an effect. Like space becomes almost weird. When it gets like that, at least here, it means you are a couple of days away from stability. However even in my case here the curing just keeps going and I've had some of these blocks going on 10 months now. But the super light weight ones I have (even lighter than your light ones) I did while Harold was here. And the stage keeps growing. It's like the stage will grow a little then the music will catch up to it in a day or two. Kinda fun cause it makes me feel like I am indeed making instruments here, which is the highest high for me as I'm doing this.

So please keep me up to date cause I want to learn what is going on over there with you and Sonic. It will help me explain things as I come out with newer products.  Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:46 am

Hi Michael,
 
To compare the LTR sound between light weight and heavy one, I prefer heavy one at this moment. It gave me more good pace and bass note grip. The harmonics and cymbals raining sound effect still not there yet. The transformation was more to lower frequency register became louder and I have to lower down the X-30 volume control. Will update you once detected changes.
 
Should I carry on with LTR on the Sherwood and others or wait........  scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:58 am

Hi Hiend001

I would find it almost unbearable to not start on the Sherwood, but I would also be tempted to do washers between the blocks and the tuning board. I would also be looking at the Magic Wood under the canopy spikes. The transfer may have changed the signal path enough that it is showing some other things.

I'm going to change one of my CD blocks to see where it goes real quick.

made the change

Oh, I can see where your going. Yeah, that's pretty nice. It digs more into the absolutes. I'm just using the one brother of the heavy ones you have, and light weight on the LF, LR and RR. I'll make some more of these so I can play while you guys are. I like the super light weight ones but can definitely dig this flavor too. I lost a hair of volume but that will come back by morning and I'll see what happens then.

have fun, I'll follow you

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:36 am


Hello Heind001

Michael gave a great description of how the Low Tone Redwood blocks sound as they settle. Have you tried them under the MTDs supporting your FS-PZCs? If/when you do that please write about what you hear.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:19 am

Hi Michael,

I can feel it today  Very Happy  There is halo on guitar and piano notes Very Happy  Also dynamic and richer in notes. Soundstage more quiet and detail than before  Very Happy Some of the percussion instrument never hear before appears  Shocked 

Is a good increment settling journey for me on the LTRs past 7 days  cheers 

Michael, Should I play with the washer on LTR? I manage to get steel (no zinc or brass washer). Intent to put 1 washer each on each LTR. Which washer size to test in between LTR and tuning board? 25mm, 20mm or 10mm?



My test plans:
1. Test the above washer with heavy LTRs. Michael should I skip.........
2. Sherwood with 4 LTRs.
3. Sherwood's transformer with LTR

You mentioned "I would also be looking at the Magic Wood under the canopy spikes".
Any suggestion on what thing you would want me to test?

I'm listening to this CD for the past 7 days and still wants more out from guest singer: Anita Baker  bounce 
Great music  cheers 

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:30 pm

Hi Hiend001

Do you still have any problem with cymbals? If you are passed this than I would say skip the washers and let it keep breaking in. If you feel anything is still dulled as compared to before than try the middle washer, but if you have better sound compared to back when you had a concern about the cymbals I would just move on.

The LTR Blocks are only going to get better so I would probably move to the next component if you have a good overall balance.

Looking at halos and harmonics rolling off of cymbals and drums (golden faders) and the instruments bodies are the things I use to judge where my blocks are taking me while breaking in. Also the inner impact of the objects, like the poping of the piano keys on (lets touch the sky), same thing on (third degree) then again with the guitars throughout the whole recording. It's a good recording for instant touch and the striking of things plus the smooth fillin from all the supporting instruments, that move with the main feature vocals or instruments. Things appear then back off.

the drums are great aren't they

To me it's sounds like your getting pretty good cues so you'll have to judge when it's time.

Good reporting, keep it up  Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:38 am


Hello Hiend001 and Michael

Great thing you did with the CD player canopy and the Low Tone Redwood blocks at the edges of your Magnazox player1 This is something that Sonic will not be able to do. Here's why:

Sonic understands the gold standard for a CD player (the same principle applies to turntables and tape transports) is that it should spin a CD without any vibration or sound. Touch the transport gently when the CD is in play, you should feel nothing or so little that you won't know if the thing was playing or not. There should also be no motor or servo noise.

Now Sonic got two CDs -- both Archivs incidentally and both favorites -- the Telemann Wassermusick (not to be confused with Mr Haendel's) and Mr Haendel's Fireworks Musick -- they both rattle and vibrate audibly in any CD player with the transport loosened or removed from its casing or if the casing is not supportted below the transport. Only these two discs in Sonic's big collection rattle like this incidently

I tried Low Tone Redwood blocks under the player and if the area under the transport is not supported, the thing vibrates like it wants to walk away. And this is with every DVD/CD player I tried tuning for years -- Sony, Philips, Samsung, "No Name", Sony Blu ray. When I tried the extreme top tune years ago with a Philips machine with the transport removed from the casing the vibrations with these two discs was so bad the transport actually shifted position during play!

When the CD player is new with every thing tightly bolted down from the manufacturer, there is no vibration or noise.
Once Sonic starts to crack screws, separate cables, remove this and that, after a point the vibrations start.

This is not musical vibration but something very sinister.

So these two discs are my test for set up. Sonic has learnt to tune only such a way and to such an extent that the two discs play just like every other CD in my collection -- without vibration or noise.

Any vibration of this magnitude will cause laser focus issues, errors in data recovery, interpolation etc all of which is basically an attempt by the chip to synthesize its way out of the problems. Then there are the power supply issues too.

So with my CD players there are pieces of MW under the casing where the transport is. No cones or springs or the two discs vibrate....but with MW and top tune, everything is silent.

Sonic has put out calls to Tunees if they felt vibrations from their tuned CD players if they touched the transports when the CD was spinning but got no replies. So Sonic worked to solve the problem -- and I think I did.

So each time I see a set up like this....Sonic thinks I wish....but the two discs are too valuable and the theoretical issues stemming from the shaking and rattling is bound to affect the sound very negatively.

Comments from both?

Sonic
ip, i(and only these ttyearswith

if the CD player is out of balanced or not supported on the manone a telemauti tarethatbelievesH
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:05 am

Hi sonic,

With my FUNAI on blocks and top off, boards loosened .. no vibration.

At first glance, it sounds like those two CDs are out of a balance in some way. Misaligned center hole or varying material depth, perhaps.

You could maybe treat this issue like balancing tires on car and apply a little scotch tape as counter weights. How you go about finding the right weight and position could be interesting though Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:41 am


Hi Toledo

Messing with trying to balance the CDs is too complicated for Sonic but thanks for your idea.

The two CDs may be out of balance and I understand someone in town here has a CD balancer/shaver -- something from Germany where you could put a CD on, spin it then use a razor shaves a bit off the edge of the disk to get it into balance. I might try that on the Telemann because I have the Wassermusick on analog (Archiv too!) but not the Handel till Sonic gets a back up. It is a wonderful performance by Trevor Pinnock and the English Concert.

We're on the eve of a public holiday here (May Day) and Sonic is listening a whole series of Haydn Symphonies on analog (Nonesuch). Nice  Very Happy 

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:42 am

Hi Sonic,

Just had another thought. Sorry Hiend for jacking your thread.

Maybe you can burn copies of these 2 cds onto best quality CDR (avoid CD-RW) you can find at slowest burn rate and see if it stops the vibration.

I havent had much luck with burned cds as they always sound different. But, I have never tried a burned cd on a DVD player.

At least you will know you are on the right track.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:49 am


Yes, and I have found hints that the slow-burn copy may sound better than the original in several aspects like transients.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Thu May 01, 2014 5:27 am

Hi Michael,

Replaced Cones AAB1X1SBS x 1 + AAB1X1SB x 1 + AAB1X1 x 1 with LTR x 4 pcs (medium ones).

The Drums impact no longer great  Sad  The halos does not has the full bodies. Maybe my tuning board space not enough to let the LTRs to dance.

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Thu May 01, 2014 8:33 am

Hi Hiend001

If the LTR Blocks touch the stand offs it will dull out the sound. Currently I have mine setup so there is 1 Block in the front and 2 in the back. Again barely touching the edge. I'm also concerned that you may have a little too much of wood on wood instead of wood/metal/wood.

Hows the humidity?

I see a couple things but lets stay on course.

Those Blocks are pretty close to those rod transfers.

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