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 A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling

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PostSubject: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Fri May 31, 2013 7:38 am

Hi Tuneland

This week we've been talking about settling a lot and I felt like since I'm waiting on some stuff to arrive in the mail I'll give the weekend to a recording and walk through how it changes during a period of settling.

I'm choosing David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust cause not is it only one of my favorite pieces of music, it's also what I have been using on Bill333's setup while tuning in.

I put on Ziggy about 9pm Thursday night and on a decent listening volume. For me personally I don't turn the volume down too far cause I find that this doesn't let all the energy through, so I will drop the dbs a little during background and up again during main listening.

There are things about this system and setup that are going to change but for the purpose of this review I'm going to not do any tuning at all. I did right before starting this turn off the components for an hour so even though this may not be cold cold, it's at least a basic cold start. I'm also going to keep the temperature at 79 degrees all weekend and the humidty will range between 10 and 21 according to my favorite weather source. Will my neighbors be able to handle a weekend of Ziggy? We will find out. This is a fairly loud crowd here (Hard Rock Cafe Casino) so I don't think I'll be getting knocks on the door Suspect , but we will see.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Fri May 31, 2013 7:57 am

Let me give you the 10pm report to start things off.

This particular system has this odd boxed/rolled off sound when first turned on. Most systems start cold sounding and bright but this one is the opposite. It sounds mushy and in a box at first mixed with that cold sterile stuck in place sound. I was so troubled with the sound of cardboard lifelessness type of sound that it was a little hard to sit there for long to be honest. Fortunately this system out of the gate in this room with this recording is not stuck in the speakers. That's usually a major drag for me, but I have lucked out in that department so far in this room. However I do have the boo factor to deal with but will have to bare with this until next week. Before spending much time tweaking this room it has a disconnect to the sound that is kinda bothering. I've done a couple things to the room to tame it a little but didn't want to go too far till I get my real amp here. It's a room with that hollow sound for sure and you can hear it with your voice as well as the recordings. I usually sit with my head fairly close to the back wall but in this case I've moved about a foot off the back wall (maybe a little more) and put a makeshift tune back there, right behind the seat on a slant. I find this trick to work very well in some rooms that have over hang. That is if you are sitting close to that wall, if you sit out in the room be careful of tuning the floor wall connection behind you cause it can steal info fast.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Fri May 31, 2013 8:15 am

I'm going to give you my 2am report, because I don't want to start forgetting things as they happened. First of all this is a new system, not really but it sounds like it. That cardboard boxy sound is really diminished and has turned into a smoothed out easy to listen to politeness. David's voice has gone from an out of phasy sound to a nice young man with smooth tones. The drums did the exact same thing and took on a very nice drum sound. I still get the sense that there is not a total connect but it's very easy to listen to and involving. Most of all the stage made a wall of sound instead of kibbles and bits. Stage is probably 6 feet deep but with that is a completeness that was not there at all in the beginning. It feels like at the beginning there were instruments missing or maybe just noise but now are instruments.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Fri May 31, 2013 8:32 am

4:30am listen

This is where things start to get interesting. Easily 8' of depth (I measured it) behind the speakers and the side walls have gone. I no longer feel like I'm in a boxed setting. The echos in the songs have become a part of the recordings space and pull me in and out of their cues, sometimes surprising me into following them. There's a lot of psychedelics in this recording and they are starting to get me inside of their game. A big thing to me is that I'm now hearing the cues go beyond the speakers left and right to the point where there is now air (a presence) that is in the recording. the sound is also coming out from the center and I can feel that presence just in front of my face. Splashes and movements have a starting point and grow as they travel. There's also no longer a side to side unbalanced feel that I didn't even realize was there earlier but now that it's gone it is very noticable that things in my last listen were not....developed would be the right word. As time goes on it's like watching a picture developing.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Fri May 31, 2013 7:08 pm

11am Friday

I as you know have been letting the system settle and during the morning heard something that I thought was worthy of note. Two things have taken place, one I took a nap, and two there seem to have been a power grid dip take place.

First, unless you are in the listening biz you may not realize that you hear differently during your wakeup hours and toward the end of your day. When you sleep your senses go into relax mode and the protective reactions that your ears go through during the day take on a different role at night. It's like disconnecting a circuit, or in our case turning off your components. Yes, your senses have a start up time and burnin time too. It's not something we do a lot of thinking about cause it happens every day, but it's there. So if your a guy that listens at night then starts off the day with music both, you are going to hear a difference with your system. You want to get use to this and not confuse it with settling. You also don't want to get yourself in the whole psychoacoustics deal that audiophiles do. Learning who you are is as big a part of listening as the music is.

Secondly, depending on where you live your power goes through peeks and valleys. No don't run out and get a power line conditioner, that will usually only dampen and shrink your sound. Better that you learn your power grid swings and deal with them for what they are.

Listening can be a moody thing and the sooner you make peace with this the sooner you can learn what makes changes in your set up. If not you will always be making changes only to find out that your chasing a phantom that keeps changing on you. Sorry, but reality is at play here and everything you do is part of an ever changing world. Don't try to beat em, join em. Most of time all it takes to join in is to relax and your ears and brain will relax with you. You do this naturally in life and in listening I see a lot of uptight audiophiles when they should just be music lovers. "Oh no my systems screwed up" no in the real world you are. I can get into how your body works but do you really need this? Relax and let yourself learn your system the music the environment changes and most of all yourself. There's nothing wrong or incorrect about listening in your relaxed mode and as a matter of fact it's at those times when you are going to let your brain follow the music and it's cues the very best. There's a lot of guys out there that don't understand listening and the way the body works at all and try to cross what is going on with the system with what is going on in their brain.

If you ever listen with me you will notice that a lot of times I may not even go into the listening room for a while "what is he lazy", no he's letting the music come to him. I'm not going to force the music to do anything, but I can let myself get into listening mode. When can I tell I am in this mode? When I can hear space! My blind friends know exactly what I am talking about here cause they have learned to make space judgements without needing to look at a physical object like buildings or walls or even furniture. When we learn the art of listening to space our audio abilities go way up in value. Almost all of us have this ability we just put on our over thinking blinders too much, and this can really screw with your listening.

Let's do a test to see if you are open or shut down as a listener. You've had your music playing in your music room for a while but you are doing other things, cooking, on the computer talking to me, whatever. While doing this two things are going to happen. Whether you perceive them or not will tell you a lot about your abilities. One your going to hear changes to the music from a distance (the sound of your system settling). Two your going to start hearing the music develop in the room you are in. You see the room you are in away from your listening room has pressure zones just like your listening room. As your system settles and the harmonics form your system is going to grow and over flow into the other acoustical space in your house (if you have an open floor plan or the door is open). If you are relaxed and open to this something very odd is going to happen. You are going to start hearing instruments in the room with you or at least part of the sound. The more your system settles and the harmonics develop the more of these instruments (ghost sounds) are going to appear. This morning for example while sitting in my writing room I started to hear drums play in my writing room away from my system. It was avery cool experience and froze me in my tracks for a moment and I stayed very still and listened to the drums playing. I could point to them. As I was getting into this other parts of the music started to appear in the room with me. I could look out into my listening area and nothing was coming from the speakers at all. The space both inside the room and outside was alive. I can rememer last night looking into the room and seeing the sound around the speakers but as time has gone on the sound has grown to the point where when I shut my eyes any where in my acoustical space I could not say where the speakers were. What I hear is all soundstage disconnected from the source.

Need to be clear here, this was not an echo. It didn't follow the rest of the music but was real time with the rest of the music. I also didn't hear this in two places. When this happened I hardly even noticed the system in the listening room.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:06 am

Wow, you know I haven't written about this in real time for a long time. But I'm glad I'm doing it cause it's a bit of a revelation for me.

10pm friday

It's been a while since posting and a lot has happened but honestly I thought it was going to knock me off my path. This week my air conditioning is being replaced and keeping the guys away from my cables was not meant to be. It was like they didn't hear a word I said and stepped all over the cable. This burnt me but really what could I say, this went right over their heads.

I thought though that this would be game over for sure but after about 5 hours of the system heading side ways it has now caught up and gotten back on track. Should I start all over or keep moving forward? The sounds by my writing area say keep going.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:34 am

10:50pm Friday listen

Well, I wish I had an audio camera cause after a little over 24hrs the two systems (the same system different time) sound could not be different. Just to review I'm leaving the system burn in for the weekend and reporting the changes (if any) as the burn in takes place.

I feel like I put thicker strings on and dropped a whole step Shocked . That is if this was a guitar. In the last 10 hours this music has dropped in tonality to the point where it's almost like a bass solo in comparison to back then. The rock recording has turned into a classical piece. At this particular time the string arrangements come rolling out of the background and make the whole production sound mellow and flowing instead of a driving rock recording. And where there are not classical type strings there is a rush of all other types of filler sounds. Real instruments and real space and effects.

Now we can get into what recording reproduction is all about in regards to how it settles and how it takes on different shapes (life). At this level of being inside the music do you really know what was the real mix and more importantly do the engineers. I can't imagine that there was a locked in sound to be honest, because I doubt if the engineers had a playback that was telling them what was going on just like the changes that this piece of music is taking on after so many variations. I couldn't begin to tell you (during the different sounds of the burn in) which one was right nor would I want to cause every pass there is something different and something even more burnt in over the last pass. What I can tell you is that as the system continues to burn in the stage is growing.

The audiophile mindset would say (maybe) "this is distortion". How can it be? Someones going to tell me that because I'm hearing more of the recording I'm listening to distortion? I think and always have that just the opposite is true and the audiophile perseption of recordings are missing a ton of information. I'm quite sure that stringed instrument is very real and is not a part of my imagination. Both Bowie and Ronson are given credit for "string arrangements". What I'm saying is after only a few hours of listening I did not hear half this recorded information that is now all up in my face. Before it was more like squeezed noise or sound that wasn't quite defined. Now it's like very present and real.

I have to tell you that I have heard Ziggy better than this, but this experience is still an exciting ride watching the recording grow twist and bend always showing a part of itself that it seems to not want to reveal all at once but more like a tease. At this point a very full bass rolling tease with really deep rich tones.

Again the saying that Sonic quoted a while back is ringing in my ears "we may be only hearing a 10th of the actual recorded material".

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:13 am

A note that I want to throw in here. There are things that I hear in my writing room that sound to me better than in the listening room. This doesn't bother me and I'm not sitting here saying I've done something wrong in there. No, basically it's telling me that there is more to these recordings than we are able to reproduce. There's so much tuning I need and want to do in the room but I also enjoy the over flow and always have. Having a "sweet spot system" has never been too appealing to me. I do like having a room when I get one that I'm able to go nuts on and do any type of remodling I choose but I also like to walk around and being able to keep soaking up the sound no matter where I am. This is probably why I've always liked more than one type of setup.

In my writing room to be honest it's pretty kick butt and the drums slam along with so much of the music that is flowing in, and as time goes on there's more of it and sounding pretty good. In the writing room off to the side there is nothing fatiguing as of about the 8th or so hour. It has a smooth tone ever since. You've heard me talk about my writing rooms and how I use them to help me judge the sound, well this is another nice one.

it's kinda like the trailer of a movie

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:25 am

Hi Michael
It seems that things are coming along nicely with your setup. About how many db are you playing your music? Do you turn it down at night or do you leave it at a reasonable and consistent db? I personally have been noticing my system getting louder as time progresses. Started high 60's and now upto high 70's with no pre amp in the setup.
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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:13 am

Hi TT

I've only barely got started but since I'm waiting on the amp and we were talking about what settling does I thought it was a cool time to do this. I don't know my neighbors very well yet so I've been dropping the volume down to a roar at night during the day I've been keeping it at a modest level. Probably in the range you are (70 maybe), but it feels louder.

Yes, it does get more loud as the settling happens (a sign that you don't have tons of blockage). Feel free to jump in about your settling and inparticular at what time frame do you sense the music is getting better.

Aslo I'd like to hear what is happening to the music (air, space, dynamic range) as it developes.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:42 am

Saturday 9:30pm listen

I was thinking I should have done my earlier today listening post, then I thought I'll remember and just write both at the same time. Laughing yeah right, fat chance Laughing

Let me start off by saying, if someone tells you that your system get's to a settling spot and plateaus I for one have no idea what they are talking about. I don't what to say that this doesn't or can't happen cause maybe for systems that have so much blockage they do (who knows) but for my systems they absolutely do not. I do believe that people get a sound locked in their mind and they try to identify with that sound (cue we call them), but this is a very small part of a musical production and there are so many parts and angles to look at a recording from that getting stuck on one little virtue and calling it right seems to be almost irresponsable to me. I've sat in rooms with reviewers before and watched them do this and honestly almost cracked up laughing cause they would get stuck on something that was so inaccurate if for nothing more than the room would have people in it and everytime someone moved I would hear it. But these boys of the power of their pens certainly made their mark. I wonder what they would say about this weekend of listening. No doubt they would not have joined in for some reason, or only have a half hour and their note pad.

No, this was and is a real event and I should do this more often only breaking down the parts of the songs as they go. This would take some doing cause this weekend has again been one of real time settling and many moments of musical madness and adventures. And the best part is we are talking about one recording and one only and how it has changed (grown) over a period of time of doing nothing but letting it settle and volume changes. TT asked yesterday about the volume and today I put this to the test a little. The question and answer is.

Does it make a difference when burning in if the volume is changed? Yes, maybe even more than I realized. Today for short periods of time I did both. One I did my inbetween time with the volume low than turn it up right before listening and the other I kept it closer to real listen levels and I have to say I was a little shocked at how big of a deal this was. And that this was not something that took all that long to make a difference. You could clearly hear the drivers and amp needing to get caught up with each other. When the volume was low then up to listening level it took about 15 to 20 minutes to get in sinc again. When the volumes were close maybe 2 or 3 minutes. this was an interesting test and one I must have been automatically without thinking. Also when you go from loud to soft it sounds a lot different than going from soft to loud. Going from loud to soft is actually kinda cool for a few minutes as (at least in this system) the system has this cool ease to it and things are nice a spread out yet soft and airy.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:14 am

9:30 part two

Boy if a had the greatest of short term recall I could write books on how the notes have changed over the last 10 hours of burnin. The last time I reported about how the bass was rolling in and it felt like a bass solo was added to the music "taking it a step down". This balances out itself at least it did here.

The bass needed to happen in order for the rest of the harmonics to follow them. This seemed like a natural order of the universe and I have heard this many times before but don't remember if I have talked about it much. Here's why if tuning a system this can be so important. What if I tuned my system or room to give it more bass then the bass rolled in, or worse what if I tuned my bass to thin out and when the system should have evened out on it's own like mine did you were left with an upward shift. How many time I wonder are people tuning only to have the harmonic shifts take place and have their systems end up in weird places? We really need to start thinking about our listening times and thinking of them in the context of musical moments and not fixed settings. It would be great if fixed sounds really were the case cause you could just set and go, but in my 30 plus years in high end audio (has it been that long) this is not reality. People keep talking like it is but every single time I have ever been around a system I have never ever seen a system sound the same day in and day out to be the case. Somewhere in here I suspect the male ego as making up rules that have never been a part of listening for nothing more than the sake of saying they were right. Big sonic characters I can give a signature sound to but that only gets you to a certain level doesn't it. A serious listener is not going to stay in the world of the tiny stage the rest of their life. This is not serious listening but only eating a piece of the pie. That's ok but I don't call this the same hobby as the one I'm into. Maybe settling doesn't matter that much for song hacks, but for those who want to break out of the box and experiment with bigger staging there are elements to this that need to be taken into account in order to be successful once you are out of the mini stage event.

Tonights listening was yet another step toward openess and to be honest if I could make this happen one CD right after another it would be heaven. I sat there thinking OMG I've got to write about that, then a minute later something else would happen that I wanted to talk about. About half way through this session I gave up on thinking what to write and just let the music take me into the very involved moment. I really doubt if I will ever hear it quite the same and to be truthful who cares. What do they say "take a picture it will last longer" Laughing I'm in this hobby for personal moments that take me deep inside of recordings meaning. The more I dig out and the deeper I go into the recordings thought the more I'm into it. This is why I try to make things as real space real size as possible. To me the small audiophile-ish squeezed stage does not tell me the story. I don't want to feel like I'm listening to a transistor radio, I want to be in the middle of the action, or at least on the edge of it.

This time around I was taken away by any time there was an acoustical guitar being played. Note: this is the Ryko master which has bonus tracks. This recording was made to complete more of the Ziggy story and feel for the production. The Ziggy concept was an interesting one and if you are into concept recording one that you might find interesting. The Alien aspect of this writing has always been of interest to me even though the sexual part is not my cup of tea. Even David would tell you that he wish he would have written this from purly an alien point of view. The story line itself though is woven throughout the piece and the deeper you let your stage grow and the range of response you can get the sense of dramatic dynamics that the "spiders" wanted to get across. The first song of the recording sets the stage in that the alien time limit before all comes to an end is five years. The song is filled with all the desperation of the reality of this so that the story can then unfold. Each song has a part of the Ziggy story and many think it should have been a double Lp so you could have more of the movie-ness or theatre feel to it, but even though this is slighty squeezed I think the story on a big sound stage bleeds through.

Drums, strums and playful vocals are surrounded by artful moodiness and a small uninvolved stage makes this recording sound like just songs of a poppy variety, but if your system can play the full imagery you can look inside of this very 3D production. There are layers upon layers of space on Ziggy and at it's best statements are made with a narator folowed by a backgrond of suporting vocals and sounds. If you pay attention each song has it's own mood but there are overtones that tie the pieces together. You can almost see the clouds over Greenwich.

Ok, why not, here's the Ziggy story

The album was intended by Bowie to serve as the soundtrack and musical basis for a stage show and/or television production telling the story of Ziggy Stardust. As well as the songs on the album, Bowie also intended songs such as "All the Young Dudes", "Rebel Rebel" and "Rock 'n' Roll With Me" (the latter two later recorded for Diamond Dogs) for this realisation of the Ziggy story.

In a Rolling Stone interview with William S. Burroughs, Bowie expanded on the Ziggy Stardust story:

"The time is five years to go before the end of the earth. It has been announced that the world will end because of lack of natural resources. Ziggy is in a position where all the kids have access to things that they thought they wanted. The older people have lost all touch with reality and the kids are left on their own to plunder anything. Ziggy was in a rock-and-roll band and the kids no longer want rock-and-roll. There's no electricity to play it. Ziggy's adviser tells him to collect news and sing it, 'cause there is no news. So Ziggy does this and there is terrible news. 'All the young dudes' is a song about this news. It's no hymn to the youth as people thought. It is completely the opposite.
The end comes when the infinites arrive. They really are a black hole, but I've made them people because it would be very hard to explain a black hole on stage.
Ziggy is advised in a dream by the infinites to write the coming of a Starman, so he writes 'Starman', which is the first news of hope that the people have heard. So they latch onto it immediately...The starmen that he is talking about are called the infinites, and they are black-hole jumpers. Ziggy has been talking about this amazing spaceman who will be coming down to save the earth. They arrive somewhere in Greenwich Village. They don't have a care in the world and are of no possible use to us. They just happened to stumble into our universe by black hole jumping. Their whole life is travelling from universe to universe. In the stage show, one of them resembles Brando, another one is a Black New Yorker. I even have one called Queenie, the Infinite Fox...Now Ziggy starts to believe in all this himself and thinks himself a prophet of the future starmen. He takes himself up to the incredible spiritual heights and is kept alive by his disciples. When the infinites arrive, they take bits of Ziggy to make them real because in their original state they are anti-matter and cannot exist in our world. And they tear him to pieces on stage during the song 'Rock 'n' roll suicide'. As soon as Ziggy dies on stage the infinites take his elements and make themselves visible."

Ok, so now you know what we are uncovering here and why I take a stage, any sound stage, so seriously. I believe most of all in the artist's message and have found that when we open up the stage to the place where it's starts to show the whole of the space we are able to see the meaning more clearly. Listening to a small stage is like, as I said, listening to a transistor radio or a 20" TV as compared to a meaningful full bodied production. Because of recording techniques do things get exagerated? Of course they do, for example the size of lead vocals, but I personally don't care. In fact I like that some of the parts are made bigger than life, it gets the point across. What I can't do is play with miniture toys, cause I know they aren't shrinking the instruments unless they are trying to do a distance background effect and these are easy to spot.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:26 pm

Well, I'm on my 3rd day!

There's a few things that have stuck out to me over these days of listening to Ziggy.

One and maybe the most pronounced is that after a while your stage fills in. I can now sit here and see nothing but stage. There are no blacks holes any where from my ears to the back of the sound stage. I'm just now even feeling pressure behind me which is telling me that with a couple simple steps I'm inches away from the stage carrying even further to the rear behind me. Having a stage like this is involving and I have to say almost peaceful cause your not looking at pathes. What's odd is that I haven't tweaked or tried to fill in the blanks with acoustical balancing tricks, it grew on it's own with just the basic setups. Would this have happened with anything less than nearfield? Don't want to say unless I did it.

The trick to this stage though is something I did right up front of things before I started my 3 day run. I planted myself by the back wall found the pressure spacing treated it then started moving the speakers from the midfield to the nearfield until the stage told me to stop. I have to back up a little and say that treat the back pressure and pulling the stage up happened as a joint effort. This is a trick I've been doing for years and it's second nature so until you get this down with your ears it may be something that is hit and miss for a while. Sitting out in the room does present challanges that I get to avoid, but I know that folks with different types of walls sometimes have a harder time against or near a back wall. Plus some don't like the sound of that pressure and only like a frontal sound, and this type of sitting is built for more of a full stage.

Another thing that I have now is a clear understanding of the things that need attention. If I would have started jumping too soon into the tweaking stage I probably would have only heard a portion of the cues developments and would have had to adjust to the adjusting. This is the toughest thing about jump tuning (tweaking). It's so easy to react and then have to try to guess where we are after the tweak settles. Far more easy to make a tweak, let it settle, then move backward or forward depend on how the twaek went, instead of jumping into the next tweak resulting in a combounding set of changes both needing settling. Sometimes we get lucky but most of the time newbies and pros alike get stuck. Trying to guess where you are instead of sliding into a place is a lot tougher and I have seen folks jump from spot to spot without ever landing on a constent, and for me the constents are my starting points and my safety nets.

A trick to my listening methods are learning what is behind me as well as in front. If you haven't had much practice with this. Plant yourself at the back wall and slowely start moving yourself off of that wall and keep going back and forward (moving your chair with you) till you get a sense of what the pressure from the back wall is doing. When you have time to study your room it's a good idea to do this with your speakers as well, and then doing this with your speakers and your chair. One thing you will learn is a relationship that develops between your ears room and objects. Even do this with the distance of the speakers off of the side walls. Doing this exercise is very time consuming to do it correctly but after you do this a few times it's going to teach you lots about your space and also other spaces you visit when listening. Try never to forget while listening what your are really doing. You are exchanging one energy for another. With this in mind picture each move as a shake up and settle time. Don't just start moving your speakers around and chair and think that this is it. If you want let me give you an easy fix to this. Get a clear bottle and fill it with water. Then put in a powder drink filler like lemonade or kool-aid or better yet one of those shake up snow scenes (where the snod flakes move and settle). Make your move then shake up your bottle. Don't make the next move till the bottle has settled and all the filler has floated to the bottom. What Shocked Question Why would you think your move in the room would settle any faster Question When you make these moves picture your room being a big bottle and you shook it. How long would it take a bottle that big to settle Question You think I'm kidding Rolling Eyes . Go find a swimming pool and get in it and see how long it takes for that pool to settle. Once it does settle make a tiny move in the pool and wait till it settles again. The trick to all of this is to stop thinking that things are fixed. The reality of settling is extremely real scratch There's no move this here and it's fixed, or turn on there and it's burnt.

When tuning you need to grow to the point in your hobby that you stop buying into the audiophile myths and start seeing sound signal as the energy form that it truly is. The audio game is not based on these big fortresses and heavy speakers, it's based on a very delicate signal that is so small you can't even see it, yet so powerful it could blow your ear drums. You need to embrace energy flow and pressure and the conduits that house and pass them. Until you get the hang of this your system is going to go in and out of tune so many times that you will either be running out to by a new system every two years or get the hang of how to control the hobby instead of it you. You need to get your mind around the signal traveling through 32 guage cable at times and having enough pressure to shake your chest. What is the balance between too little and too much. And you need to learn about waves and how many different kinds of waves there are and how do they affect sound and signal waves study . Don't pick up audio books and start killing every thing or I guarantee you your killing your music right along with the other waves. You need to learn proportions. Be smarter than 2D thinkers who write about stuff from a limited view.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:35 am

Hi Guys

Well Ziggy has taken a break and I put on an EMI remaster of another Bowie piece. I am very pleased at the translation so far between the two. Why is this important? This means that it might be likey that I can go from a RYKO to an EMI without going crazy in the tweak area. As I get to know this setup and fine tune it I can now begin to group my listening together so it makes sense stage wise.

Aladdin Sane (what I put on) is staging almost exactly the same as Ziggy and I just put it on. What it is missing I think will grow over the next hour or so but I wouldn't have a problem jumping right into this CD right after Ziggy without burnin. For me learning this is something I make a mentel note of when I do decide to head another direction with another signal setup arrangement.

What I'm saying is I could right now go through my collection and put something on that would completely throw the sound stage out of whack for that recording and for the systems signal path settings. These signal if played for very long would begin to throw the system out of tune and the balance would need to start all over again.

You see I'm not tuning the system, I'm tuning the system to a signal source. This is where things get screwy for listeners who don't understand recording signatures and how they change signal flow, or should I said how the signal flow changes the recordings sound when played. You don't get a system fixed then it plays everything perfectly.

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PostSubject: Re: A weekend of Ziggy 3 days of settling   Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:33 am

What I would like to do now is to talk about some of the changes I have made from the Ziggy weekend and have another one based on these changes that the Ziggy weekend taught me.

It was like the weekend of letting it settle gave me a road map and now I'm traveling down the road and able to make turns. The key will be not to get lost on this trip.

This is going to take a lot of listen/write back and forth but I will do my best to put things into writing.

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