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 The New Standard System

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Obb



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PostSubject: The New Standard System   Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:08 am

Hello there!

I am a music lover from Thailand, and I have been tuning by myself for just a couple of months now since I discovered Tuneland.
I have been reading a lot of threads on the archive as well as Techno-Zone to get some of the basics and understand the concepts.
I even did some DIY to get a sense of what tuning could do to my room and system.

I accidentally found Tuneland when I was trying to decide whether I should get the Tunepak or the Square and XLT from Music Direct.
I did not know the differences between the two, and did not know anything about tuning. All I know is that I wanted to replace the dry and dull
knockoffs pillow products I was using. (I'm sorry Michael, that's what I could only find here) 

My first tuning experience was replacing the Rega Jupiter cd player I love to a simple Panasonic DVD player I have laying around.
At first it did not sound great. It sounded like a regular cheap player that is dry and sterile. BUT then I cracked the screws.
Yes…the screws made a huge difference. I took the cover off, and it was even better. I then started removing some of the big name
thick cables to the smallest ones I have and things were never better!

I have never owned the big names and expensive equipments because I like to play around with things like speaker placements
and other stuffs like acoustic. I have gone diffusing, damping and trapping direction. That worked at first, but when I started tuning,
they shut down and create blind spots in my room. Now I still have 4 panels of MDF diffuser in my room laying around since I can't carry them alone.

I join Tuneland looking to convert to a full tunable system. The only MGD products I have are 4 CTs and 4 ETs. But first I think that
I need to remove my thick carpet with wood floor. And since I would be expanding some parts of my house soon, I'm thinking of putting up
a back wall behind my listening chair to create a rectangle 11.5' x 13.5' room (the shape is kind of strange now) Don't know if that's a good idea,
but I will have my room plan and pictures soon. 

By the way, sorry about my English. I will try my best to communicate Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:28 am

Hi Obb

Welcome to the Tune. I'm looking forward to walking through your tuning adventure with you! Pictures and plans will be great. 

It's great to see someone who seems to be already out of the box from the start. So many times people have gone down the long painful road and the turn around from the high end audio world to the world of the tune looks like two different hobbies altogether. I believe that high end audio will actually turn into the tune and the more your (the tunees) tunable systems appear in public the more this movement toward better sound will catch the attention of the music lovers.

Going from thick to thin, from heavy to light, from boxed to open and from fixed to free resonant is the path of the serious future listener, and we get to break the ground. Pretty exciting stuff.

Your english is great and your message is a welcomed one.

enjoy the tune

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Drewster
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:37 am

Hi Obb,

Welcome to TuneLand. The simple tuning techniques that you describe as opening your eyes and ears are exactly what astounded me too when I first tried them. And then I went on from there....

It's great having you as another set of ears and a contributor on TuneLand. Cool



jocolorjocolor

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:04 am

Greetings Obb!

Welcome to the Tune. Join in the discussions, ask all the questions you want, there will be Tunees ready to jump in and help.

Were you in Singapore last weekend and bought up the entire Corner and EchoTune stock from Tuneland retailer Jimmy?

Sonic
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Obb



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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:22 pm

Thanks everyone for your kind words. This is exciting and I just can't wait to start my tune journey.

Sonic, yes that was me! We wanted to get the square ones, but the stock was low, so we bought what was left there. Were you there that day or just heard from Jimmy? I was there with my girlfriend and a friend. Wish I could have said hi if you were there.

Anyway, I have my plans, measurements, and pics ready, but I will post them tomorrow!

See you soon Cool
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Obb



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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:09 am

My room is an extension from the original house. It sits on a small concrete room and is made out of I-Beam structure as you can see in the pic. The floor and walls are made of Cement Bonded Particle Board which I believe is a mixture of wood and cement. They are attached directly to the I-Beam. The floor has thick wall to wall carpet sitting on the particle board with no insulation. The walls are made the same way, but there are yellow polyurethane insulation inside. They are pretty stiff and I can't stick the push pin through them unless I use a hammer. But they are not that too hard and stiff, and when I tab on them, the whole wall vibrates. The ceiling is made of drywall with wooden structure. Last year, I had water leakage in the back part of the room and I had to fix it. That is the white part in the back of the room which I have not re painted yet. Laughing

1. My plan & measurements - True proportions, Not to scale




2. The room - outside view




3. I-Beam structure and Cement Bonded Particle Board




4. Front view of the room




5. Right Side from behind the seat




6. Left side from behind the seat




7. Right Wall




8. Left wall




9. Back view of the room




10. Right Back




11. Left back with DVD shelf and strange angle




12. Right back with A/C and pressure box




13. Left back with shelf and more pressure box

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Obb



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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:44 am

14. Ceiling view




15. Equipments




16. Philips DVD player & Kimber Tonik ICs




17. Myryad 60 watts British Integrated Amp




18. Low mass wall outlet & DIY 20AWG solid core magnet wire speaker cable




19. Pine wood power strip & DIY 17AWG soild core power cord




20. IKEA pine shelf as platform - no finishing

 


21. Another equipments view




So that is it, my dedicated listening room. It was first used as a HT room, but I don't watch movies that often anymore. I'm thinking of converting this room to a pure 2 channel stereo room soon. I'll bring out the screen and all the HT devices.

Most of the stuffs here are DIY except from the Amphion Ion speakers and the black Target rack. The speaker is a Finnish brand with 4.5 paper cone. It is tiny and is light weight. The stands are Lovan steel stands, which are the lightest one I could find.

The FS you see here are a Thai knockoffs which sounds dull and lifeless. I can't get them too close to each other because of the screen in the middle.

The little wood pieces are actually of different kinds - most of them are Japanese wood that I bought back with me last spring (mostly softer wood). Also, some of them are American Basswood. The wood are baked once.

The shutters are DIY from Balsa wood and I finish them with a layer of beeswax coating. All the DIY stuffs are made because I just wanted to get a sense of what the tune can bring, so I'm looking to change them to genuine MGD products in the future.

Please enjoy!
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:02 am

Hi Obb

Thanks for the pics, I see you've been having fun Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:40 am

Hi Obb

We missed each other by minutes.  I went to Jimmy to pick up some pillow products that I wanted to experiment with and he said someone from Thailand just a bit earlier bought a load of the Corner Tunes and things.

Sonic
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Obb



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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:22 pm

Michael,

Yes I have been having so much fun with the tune. Sometime I got too carried away with the DIY because I was trying to understand why things work the way they do. And that helped me a lot. I know that what I have done is nothing compare to the real tune, but it was a great ride. I'm ready when you are Michael, so please take me on the tune field trip. I am willing to start from scratch again!

Sonic,

Wow I should have stayed a little longer. Jimmy was a great guy, but I didn't really ask him about tuning. I was actually thinking that it would be crazy to meet Sonic here, so at least I could get some tuning advice from a real tunee. Anyway, I think I'll be asking you a lot of questions soon. Wink

Oh and by the way, I bought a Sherwood 4109 receiver yesterday. We don't have the 4105 here in Thailand, but they are pretty much the same. The 4109 has a phono section and the binding posts in the back. I believe that's the only differences. I'm burning it in right now in my studio and it seems to have a warm midrange and great bass. Just have to wait and see.
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:46 pm

Hi Obb

Very good! My first question is, are we ready to go from home theatre to dedicated listening room? If so we will want to design to use the front wall.




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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:59 pm

Yes Michael, I'm ready to take this to a dedicated 2 channel room. I am planning to remove all the HT stuffs out soon anyway. Also, I was thinking of putting a back wall (drywall) behind my chair. Would that be necessary? I just think that the DVD shelf is a dampening my room big time.
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:17 pm

Ok, next question before I dive in. Are you planing on keeping the two chairs in there? I like the look of your listening chair BTW. The 2 chairs on either side of you are burning a ton of the rooms music.

I like the idea of a wall behind you. What I would do is either put up a wall or put up a tunable SAM or SAM wall.




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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:25 pm

If this wall is to be your back wall, I can not tell you how big of a difference a tunable wall behind you makes. It can be the difference between good and out of this world good. Being able to reach behind you and tune in your tonality is hard to explain but once you use this it makes it really hard to listen without. I suggest the SAM partial because I see your air conditioning unit there.

Does the 4109 look the same inside as the 4105? These units are easy to tune. They do take a while to burn in but I'm looking to the future when those parts get nice and crispy. If it is the same amp your going to find it to be very detailed and when matched to the right speakers extremely open. I like using the Magnazox CD player with mine as you have read. The combo with these and the tunable speakers is so effortless.

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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:45 pm

No I plan to remove them from the room. Only the middle one will stay. I know they burn much of my music becuase I have tried to move them around the room. I even had them right behind my listening chair at one point.

The SAM seems like a great way to go here, but I wonder if the strange angles in the back would create a problem. In the past, my soundstage usually drift to one side. And it is difficult for me to find the spot for speaker placement. That is why I thought the wall behind me would solve the problem because the room would become a rectangle room. 

Like you said, I know that a SAM would sound much much better here. I just wonder if the strange angles, the DVD shelf, and the A/C won't be a problem, then I might go with a SAM.
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:02 pm

I believe that the 4109 the same inside as the 4105. The obvious differences are the small phono board and the binding posts. Also, I think my 4109 transformer is a bit different from yours, but that could be the 220v version. I'm not sure though. I'll have check it out.

We don't have the Maggie here in Thailand. I'm using the simplest Philips DVD player they have that has no USB input, no Karaoke function, and no HDMI output. It is the most basic one that sells here for about $30. I want to try a Magnavox, but I would have to use a step down transformer or even change its transformer to a 220v one.

I haven't tried the 4109 and the Philips together yet, but I will soon when it has burned in a little more.
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:06 pm

It comes down to two different room design types.

One is being in a rectangle, the other using the energy from the extra space. If you do know how you would vent the room the SAM wall would give you more control in the long run. As far as he room shift, this is something that will be fixed through finding the blockage that is making this happen. It can be acoustical but it can also be hiding in the electronics. When you get the MGA tools it will be a lot easier to find cause I will be expanding your harmonics quite a bit. Do you know the humidity in your room?

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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:09 pm

Obb wrote:
I believe that the 4109 the same inside as the 4105. The obvious differences are the small phono board and the binding posts. Also, I think my 4109 transformer is a bit different from yours, but that could be the 220v version. I'm not sure though. I'll have check it out.

We don't have the Maggie here in Thailand. I'm using the simplest Philips DVD player they have that has no USB input, no Karaoke function, and no HDMI output. It is the most basic one that sells here for about $30. I want to try a Magnavox, but I would have to use a step down transformer or even change its transformer to a 220v one.

I haven't tried the 4109 and the Philips together yet, but I will soon when it has burned in a little more.

Very good. If the unit does do what the Maggie does you'll be in good shape. So glad your going simple Exclamation

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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:21 pm

Less is more! This has always been the way I like. Thank God we don't need that big bad stuffs to get great sound.

Ok I'm not so sure how I would vent the room. By that I mean, The room has to have an A/C that's for sure. i think that if I were to build a wall, I would bring the A/C to the back side of wall in the back room, and I might make those air vent that would blow the A/C inside the listening room. Don't know if you understand me though. Laughing

The humidity in my room is about 50-60%. I have a meter in a room and when it gets too humid, I would bring in a dehumidifier which would bring it down to about 40%. This time of the year in Thailand is the most humid becuase it is Rainy season, so I put the dehumidifer in every other day or two.
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:55 am

Hi Obb

So if this was a tunable wall it would have a vent. I would recommend to put the vent where it was not in the way of any corner tuning.


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PostSubject: SAM    Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:24 am

Hi Michael,

Thank you for the pic. It would be really cool to have a tunable wall in my room. However, I was talking to the A/C installation guy today, and he said it would be difficult to move the A/C like what I had in mind. He said that the type of A/C unit I have would not work with the vent and I would have to change to the other unit. Also, I would have to redo the pipe, drill more holes, and etc.

I think that I would go with a SAM like you suggested and leave the room the way it is. Oh but what I could do is to remove the DVD shelf out of the room, so that will leave an empty wall in the right back if that helps any.

BTW, my Sherwood is getting better. I played a song today and it seems like a different amp from yesterday. I could hear some lower tones and the midrange is getting warmer and thicker, and I havn't cracked any screws or take the top off yet. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:17 pm

I recommend because of your type of walls that you go floor to ceiling with the SAM. This will give you the most control.



There will be enough air flow for the air conditioning. If we did this wall with my "low tone frame" the SAM will almost go as low as the full wall. The Low Tone is a stud I have developed that goes lower in tone than a normal stud.

Good, glad to hear the breakin is going well. It takes a while but the Sherwood will drop in. You might want to get those screws losened so the rest of the parts can vibrate at lower tones. I like burning in my stuff very lose. In the long run this gives more tonality.

I'll take a closer look at the back of the room.

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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:16 am

Wow this sounds great! The Low Tone seems like what I need in this room after all. I also plan to remove the thick carpet from the room and put real wood floor instead, so I guess I need to get this done before putting the SAM in. 

I was looking at pine wood floor, one is the regular Scandinavian pine and one is Thermowood pine. I believe the Thermowood is 10-15% lighter than the regular pine. I talked to the floor guy and he said that I can lay them over the particle board on my floor using the board as my subfloor. Would that be okay? Do I need to put a wood subfloor between them? Or should I go with the Engineered wood floor instead?

I'll loosen the screws and take the top off the Sherwood today. I'll take a pic for you to see the inside of it.
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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:48 am

Hi Obb

Your at the place where it's time to talk about secrets so email me at mgtune@yahoo.com and we'll start taking a look at how to treat the floor before you put flooring on top and different options. Keep in mind we can put in a tunable floor. If you do choose this you can put the floor and SAM in at the same time.

Yes, I would like to see the inside of the amp.

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PostSubject: Re: The New Standard System   Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:28 pm

Here's a picture of Obb's Sherwood.



Glad to see it is the same. Love these designs that Sherwood has come out with.

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