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PostSubject: bdemke's system   Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:04 pm

TuneLand welcomes bdemke, or as I messed up the register bdemke1 Laughing 

Oh brother I'm always messing something up.

bd happened to catch me while traveling and has been patient (thank you) for my return.

"I just moved into a new place and my system sounds boxy and the bass is not good and I have attached pictures so you can see it.  It is a weird shaped room and I was wondering how you would treat it with your room tunes select products? Would some of the 12" x 24" behind or on the side wall help?  I would like it to look nice too but the room is so different from because of the ceiling and not having equal corners.  What would be your suggestions?"



And the back




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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:10 pm

This is one of those systems that can be transformed easily with a little tuning in both the mechanic sense and the acoustical.

First thing I would recommend is treating the room as a whole and not only the listening area. Those tall ceiling peeks are hosting a ton of sound. If the upper area were treated and the front window treated with blinds (perhaps wood or bamboo) the transformation will be well on the way.

Time for a drawing





and





If you want to take pics of the rest of the area I can plug in the product, but this gives you an idea. What you will want to do is count the corners and midseams and fill in the blanks with tunes. I would guess the side wall will have room for an EchoTune. Is this making sense?

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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:46 am

Hi Guys

bdemke is having a hard time logging in so I'm going to post for him so we can follow what's happening.

bd says

Also, With the design using the RT panels:  

Is that enough panels to make a real difference?  Big difference or slight?

Is that optimal placement for this room?  

Is the back wall that important?

Anything on either side?  The right has the window with the curtains.

Would to do the RT first and then the platforms?  

mg

There's three parts to any system electrical mechanical and acoustical. Trying to pick out which one to fix first is a toughy but the safe bet is the acoustics. At the same time those kappas sitting on the carpeted floor are doing you no good.

I would take care of the main seams first look here http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t25-roomtune-squares then here http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t57-roomtune-acoustical-treatment .

Keep in mind your corners and seams of the room can produce build up pressure as loud as your speakers, so yes, tuning your corners and seams will make a big difference. Your going to want to read some of the guys threads and see how far you want to go with this but the RT Squares and other products I drew are a no brainer.

How far your system can go really depends on how far you want to take it, but we're here to walk you through the steps and as you find areas that you question we'll be here to help you find those answers. My method of listening is pretty full proof and it's just a matter of learning your system and room.

If you send me pics of the rest of the room I can do drawings for those areas as well.

Sorry your not able to log on. strange

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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:59 am

Greetings bdemke

Welcome to the Tune!

What speakers are those? And your system chain? Are those two boxes either side of the screen the subwoofers?

Sonic got very good results with bamboo blinds and in a brief detour into using curtains, I found they caused more problems and colourations than those they solved. Also the zone behind the listeners’ head is vitally important in shaping the ambient field and 3D-ness of you music. After having my Bookcase Wall behind my head, listening in any room with a lot of space behind the listening area makes me feel that the girth of the soundstage is half gone. Also don’t believe those who say that a surface behind you destroys imaging or creates bass problems. When applied in a Michael Green guided tuned set up, this creates music and not problems.

Sonic


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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:03 pm

Thanks Bill for sending more pics, this helps see the big picture.



tuned






tuned






tuned


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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:16 pm

Very good that you've included the entire acoustical space. keep in mind sound pressure doesn't know to stop at the mini wall where the speakers are. By treating this space your controlling the areas at the build up sources. This is huge! If the rear right corner has the same openess you will want to tune it as well. Don't think because it is a little further away that it won't matter cause it does. This is just how rooms work.

If you came to me with a blank slate here's what I would say. Your walls and ceiling are your strong points. Your carpet, sofa and drapes are your weak points. Where your sofa is sitting is also a weak point and could really use a SAM wall. A SAM wall goes right behind the listeners in rooms where the listening chair is in the middle of the room.

The speakers and equipment could also be pulled out from that front wall giving you a lot more openess.

The speakers need platforms (bad). The equipment is also in need of a platform as they seem to be sitting on carpet.

The space right in front of the sofa could use a wood rug to correct the absorbtion going on between the speakers and you.

These would be huge moves and your system would change so much you wouldn't even know these were the same recordings.

this could be something very cool Cool

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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:34 pm

bd says

"Would you use rt squares all around or the bigger tricorners up on the corners?  What are the sam walls that you mentioned?"

mg

I would use the RT Squares and I'll tell you why. Because the upper areas are uneven and the RT Squares are so flexible.

In my room right now I've been using the RT Squares to do patterns that would be hard to do with anything else and have the same results. For example. I can put them flat against the wall, or straddle the corner or hanging pulled out from the corners and walls. This has allowed me to do a ton of shaping the sound and getting this dialed in.

here's my current RT Square layout with SAM



A SAM wall is a tunable wall that sits right behind the listener.



the one I'm using right now is 6' wide 5' tall




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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:48 am


Hi bd

Michael is making a critical point with the SAM. It makes a huge difference and you can see how just building out the area of my bookcase walls creates a different pressure pattern and flow in my room. I am finding myself spiraled up to another floor in musick replay realism.

When my listening seat was in open space like in so many audiophile set ups I could never get my soundstage to gell forward and back and what the great tunees and Michael were talking on the Tuneland site about surround ambience and thick harmonics sounded like they had either excellent imagination or were writing under the influence.

They weren't. As I curiously followed the programme little by little, Sonic found that the tune and Michael's ideas work pretty much as described.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:50 pm

bd asked

"When using the rt squares in the corners, would you place them over the corner where the walls and corner meet or are you putting them 3-6" down from the corner on like the front wall? The pictures look like they are down a little from the corner."

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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:27 am


Hi Michael and bd

I would use Corner Tunes but if having to use RTS, Sonic will have them a few inches out from the corner not diagonally out but closer to the side wall.

Is this what you would do, Michael?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:42 am

Hi bd

I realized I put your question up but not the answer.

RT's in the corner

I would start by using them directly covering the corner. Usually I would recommend the CornerTune for this but because the corners are not 45ed I feel the Square gives more flexibility.

Because every corner has it's own amount of pressure build up (and flavor to that build up) I, more than I use to, play with how much burn I want. I start off with the product directly in the corner but if I hear that the music dulls I quickly adjust how much and where do I want to do my burning and controlling from. I would love to say one size fits all but the truth is there are other parts to this equation of speaker/room/ear.

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PostSubject: Re: bdemke's system   Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:12 am

bd says

"Are you talking about using the room tunes or RT selects?  And you would use the squares instead of even like the mini tri corners?  With the platforms, do the kappas sit on the platform or would you use brass feet and then do the platforms sit on feet also? "

mg

Yes the RT Squares in the standard RoomTune fabric, here's the product page.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t25-roomtune-squares

The regular RT Square is covered in RoomTune Fabric front and back. The Select has RT leather in the front and RT fabric in the back.



The Platforms come with spikes. Did your Kappas come with stock spikes. If so you could use them under the speakers and on top of the platform. The feet on your speakers will make again a big difference in the sound. I would get the platform first then explore which spike or footing is the best to use based on your new sound.

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