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 electromagnetics "the fields we live in"

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Michael Green
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PostSubject: electromagnetics "the fields we live in"   Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:10 am

Hi Listeners

Do you think the industry would be a different one if the designers  and story tellers in this hobby understood the audio signal? I do.

There's something about the bullish way people think that makes them adopt bad habbits, and one of the worst habbits I have seen in this industry is the lack of true science being applied to the audio reproduction biz and hobby.

One major thing that we have implemented in this industry that has all but killed it sound wise is the way we have dealt with electromagnetic fields.

When we hear things like "fields" being talked about we turn into disortion witch hunters and put physics to the stake before we even understand what physics in one particular area is doing and how it can help or hurt the sound.

What am I talking about? Electromagnetics

I am convinced that many of my fellow designers haven't a clue when it comes to understanding the basics in electromagnatism. If so why are we listening to tiny sound stages that are far smaller than real life recording situations? Is there a magic button along the way in the audio chain that takes an object that may be 3 feet in height and depth and width (in the recording room) and reduces it to a few inches? I've never seen one of these buttons on my stereo nor any other stereo I know of.

In my experiments and experience I have created real size real life recording reproductions. Reproductions so real that you can see a full size instrument in the room with you along with all the wonderful trimming. I'm not alone. Others who have heard my stereo and those who have used the methods I do experience the same real size presentation.

What I would like to do in this thread is explain how you can set your system free and gain an understanding of one of the most important chapters in your audio chain.

Electromagnetics is nothing new, and the study of it goes back as far as the explorers realizing we are not in the center of the universe. Actually let me take that back. Even these guys were thinking that exact thing "the universe is revolving around us by some force".

In the 1800's some shocking insights were being made and the brains of that time started to make a science called electromagnatism.

"A branch of physics that deals with the relationship between electricity and magnetism. Their merger into one concept is tied to three historical events. Hans C. Orsted's accidental discovery in 1820 that magnetic fields are produced by electric currents spurred efforts to prove that magnetic fields can induce currents. Michael Faraday showed in 1831 that a changing magnetic field can induce a current in a circuit, and James Clerk Maxwell predicted that a changing electric field has an associated magnetic field."

If we got our heads around this alone we would be making stereo equipment differently in the high end audio world than we are currently doing and have done in the last 40 years.

Electromagnetism is based upon the fundamental observations that a moving electric charge produces a magnetic field and that a charge moving in a magnetic field will experience a force. The magnetic field produced by a current is related to the current, the shape of the conductor, and the magnetic properties of the medium around it by Ampère's law. The magnetic field at any point is described in terms of the force that it exerts upon a moving charge at that point. The electrical and magnetic units are defined in terms of the ampere, which in turn is defined from the force of one current upon another. The association of electricity and magnetism is also shown by electromagnetic induction, in which a changing magnetic field sets up an electric field within a conductor and causes the charges to move in the conductor.

Electromagnetism is the interaction responsible for almost all the phenomena encountered in daily life, with the exception of gravity (maybe). Ordinary matter takes its form as a result of intermolecular forces between individual molecules in matter. Electrons are bound by electromagnetic wave mechanics into orbitals around atomic nuclei to form atoms, which are the building blocks of molecules. This governs the processes involved in chemistry, which arise from interactions between the electrons of neighboring atoms, which are in turn determined by the interaction between electromagnetic force and the momentum of the electrons.

This is as natural as breathing and is an on going 24/7 event that is not able to be put on hold. "we are never going to stop moving" and "any thing that moves has ongoing electromagnetic interaction".

Electromagnetism manifests as both electric fields and magnetic fields. Both fields are simply different aspects of electromagnetism, and  are intrinsically related - a changing electric field generates a magnetic field; conversely a changing magnetic field generates an electric field. This effect is called electromagnetic induction, and is the basis of operation for electrical generators, induction motors, and transformers for example. But let's not limit ourselves, every cunduit in your audio chain has relations with these fields.

In other words, everything in your audio chain is feeding everything else and feeding off of everything else. I'll get into why this is most important but want to paint the picture for you that your audio pathway is very much energized and there is an ongoing exchange that when in balance can pass signal more accurately and when blocked will cause a callapse in the signals language.

Is this for real?

In quantum electrodynamics, electromagnetic interactions between charged particles can be calculated using the method of Feynman diagrams, in which we picture messenger particles called virtual photons being exchanged between charged particles. This method can be derived from the field picture through perturbation theory.

Ok, so go get a soda and sit there a minute and think about this. Electrons and interaction, particles and exchange. What your telling me is my audio signal is a part of this whole mess? Yes, I absolutely am.

1.The sound source creates sound wave vibrations in the air.

2.These vibrations of the sound waves are picked up by a microphone.

3.The microphone converts the vibrations into an "electrical" signal.

4.The electrical signal is processed.

5.Eventually, the signal ends up in an output device (such as a loudspeaker).

6.The output device converts the "electrical" signal back into sound waves.

To make this super simple, anytime you see the word "electrical" you are talking electric fields and magnetic fields. The two walk hand and hand from the electron itself to the audio signal pathway your listening to tonight.

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PostSubject: Re: electromagnetics "the fields we live in"   Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:08 pm

Hey, Mr. Green,

What I would like to do in this thread is explain how you can set your system free and gain an understanding of one of the most important chapters in your audio chain.

Have we gotten to that part yet?

Slow Learner
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PostSubject: Re: electromagnetics "the fields we live in"   Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:36 pm

Shocked 

Laughing 

I think that's where most are at. How do I get past it quickly?  I study  my world. I try to look at my system first for what it can do before I make the choice to put the obstacles in the road.

If I can figure out how to make my system sing from what I have learned about simplisity and that I have the knowledge that everything is playing off of everything else, I'm way ahead of the game.

For example, if I were you, the TV would be in the next room and I would have a magnazox player in there with your simple setup. I'm absolutely certain the maggie will beat all up on the Blueray player you have. Not that you won't go back but at least you will find some of the stuff your missing. The chair would go (which is easy to replace here because of all the really cheap used furniture stores). Once I had it pretty simple I would start doing test to see where I am. You've studied a lot already so even doing those few things would tell you some.

Next, I'd be looking at that floor and even be putting my ear next to it to hear how funky it is. "hmmm", you'll say, "that same sound I hear on the floor is something I'm hearing through the whole system". It doesn't have enough tone or it's distributed weird. If you don't get that sense at least think about what is happening when the energy from the platforms try to make their way to the ground and hit that floor, then most of that sound is heading right back up into the sysytem. Definately worth a trip to the home depot for a 4X8 ply with 4, 2X4 studs. Placing that, even without the "MG" voicing, under your chair will be a revelation. Then try some under the platforms "even more".  "hmmm again"

The sound we're hunting for is in the exchange of the energy and the energy pathways in our room and system. Even that wire coming from the outside has a ton to do with the individual sound that is going on in my system. Everything that is contributing to energy at my place is becoming a part of the sound. I must get to the root of sound "vibration".

This part really blows my mind because there's really not another hobby like it where we get to be in control of the energies that make the sound. We can shape the sound to what ever we want once we set our minds into it. Have I put any blocks under my platforms yet? Or have I put washers between my platform tops and the frames (or other materials)? These are two things right off the top that should tell me how energized my system really is.

Once we get some of this stuff down to a science and feeling comfortable with that science then we can start looking at the actual parts in the components (which won't be many if the other stuff is gone).

Maggie, sherwood or pioneer, cables, platforms, tunes, with the extra stuff out of the room. That's a great place to be. At that point we start listening to how things are working with or working against each other.

You guys would be so suprised if you saw how little was in my room right now. The magic is, I've got it so darn simple and with the raised wood floor and very simple components it is easy to hear what is going on and also easy to make changes and get instant results.

I'm getting to know my energy and how each part is playing off the other parts. I can go in and change the electro field now and listen to it change as it settles, then can go back in and make another setting till I get a direction I want to go in, but I'll tell you the secret "vibration". I'll tell you the other secret "get rid of the things that don't vibrate the way I want".

Personally I think your sitting on a gold mind of sound. I wish it was on the upper floor but if you put in a vibrating floor and moved the stuff out that you probably already know is getting the energy mixed up and go toward vibrating your going to be fine. You had mentioned that the room produces good bass, there's half the battle. The other half is the fuse box, two components, floor, I think you already have the walls and ceiling, and the experience once you get the energy simple, wow.

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PostSubject: Re: electromagnetics "the fields we live in"   Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:18 pm

Hey, Mr. Green,

Now we are talking about platforms on platforms? You mentioned the same thing on Sonic's thread and said it would add another layer of transfer. See, I'm still trying to sort all of this out; the difference between "the mess of mass" and adding things which will vibrate in a good way. I would think adding more to the room would be more mass, but apparently that mass has to be something which can contribute to good vibrations and not soak them up. Is that it?
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PostSubject: Re: electromagnetics "the fields we live in"   Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:06 am

Hi Robert

There's magic when we are able to take any material and get it to vibrate (exchange electrons) naturally.

Energy is funny thing when we put labels on it. For example we tend to separate electrical from mechanical yet they both do the same thing using the same types of molecules in motion. I think for the sake of being able to explain things we as people have had to try to find boxes. Since the days of discovering electricity we got big on this cause we have been trying to capture it for use. That's all fine and good but we should never forget what electricity's root comes from "electrons".

When you break everything down to the root you have movement and momentum. Movement can not happen without electrons and momentum is the speed or pattern of the energies flow.

Without getting too far into particles, lets just say they play a huge part in sound.

So lets say your cable is passing an audio language. This language we typically put in terms of 20 to 26,000 cycles. The cable then touches another set of particles in the form of another passage, like lets say an RCA connector. If that RCA connector can pass the signal maintaining it's entire language you have made a pure conduit pathway. Then the RCA is connected to a mechanical material holding it in place. This material is vibrating as well (all things are in motion). So now the language conduit (cable RCA, so on) is doing a vibration exchange with the material holding the RCA jack. In order for the language being carried by the audio conduit to transfer the whole signal that piece that is touching the RCA must be able to disapate the vibration naturally and at the proper rate of timing to allow the signal to travel at it's full potentual. What's interesting here is the same frequencies we listen to are the very same amounts of energy vibration that is common to the materials we touch and use every day. Meaning when you turn up your stereo even a little everything within a certain physical distance from the signal, language, vibrating parts hosting the signal is caused to vibrate as well.

This is where some have a hard time with this.

How much movement (vibration) does it take to vibrate something else to cause an affect on the original signal? My answer is both scientific and easy, but one that is hard for most audiophiles to get their minds around. You can affect the signal paths vibratory structure with as little vibration as it takes to hear the signal or feel it. Meaning if you turn on your stereo and can hear it down the hall, it is sending vibration at least that far. Shocked  We are out to lunch with our ideas that the audio signal stays and is completed at the conduit itself. Nothing else in nature works this way yet we have the corner on the market of audio understanding and say the audio signal is unique and isn't suposed to disapate like all other energies including music notes. This is Koo Koo! The truth is the further you can make the signal language last in distance the more true the signal will be and the least amount of lost. This is true with not only acoustical energy but the vibration of the audio components (wires caps resistors transformers and such). In my studies the further I let the components do their thing away from the origin the more the music comes to life and carries less distortion.

This flies in the face of the audiophile mythology but I have never seen this not to be the case with either my system or anyone elses I have ever listened to or heard back from people on. So much so that when I have made toys that one would think might cause too much vibration we have always been shocked at how full and tight the music content gets.

This should not be confused with tuning up the signal. The vibratory code can get out of tune just like anything else but the further you let the signal vibrate the more content you hear.

Vibration does not mean loose or distortion, it means amplification, and this is the basis of our entire hobby. "how do we amplify things"


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PostSubject: Re: electromagnetics "the fields we live in"   Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:37 am

Hi Zonees

At those junctions, we need to ask ourselves what makes for a perfect joint. Does the cable have to be clamped tight to the terminal so tight the thread is about to break as some audio myths advise, or should the connection be made with just enough pressure so that the signal passes.

Which is preferable and why? Tunees go gentle and light in touch and find it sounds better. Why?

Also we need to ask if things like contact enhancers like the Tweeks and Carmolins are good at the interface between the two materials.

Michael, what is the best way to refresh a contact....is corrosion bad at all?

What is the sound of corrosion and tarnish really?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: electromagnetics "the fields we live in"   Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:02 pm

I'd like to introduce this thread to the thread on "the audio code".

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t268-the-audio-code

I think you'll find some of the continuing work I'm doing there interesting.

The more I study, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that harmonic patterns exist with all energy sources, or at least from light down. With this being the case this would mean that beams, waves and vibrations all have a halo effect taking place.  These halos are based in a harmonic network and are the support systems for keeping everything in place and in balance.

The fair exchange of motion in it's continuum is the basis for all action and re-action. Space is not empty space in the truest sense. Anything that has the ability to form a pattern is supported by a harmonic system, and harmonic systems are free to roam or catch rides on energies conduits.

When you break this down don't think of it as something that vibrates in the sense of back and forth, but more as patterns which form in and within structures and superstructure hosts. Maybe it's best to look at this in the form of a ball as a 2D model.



the movement of anything air bound creates a field as well from a bigger view anything that operates in space



The fields we live in are always present but at different intensities from inertia (stable ready for travel) to a starter (forced action), and all the way to maturity like a ball bouncing and then a roll. The fields live to convert and to grow always in exchange mode. While going through the exchange the energies like soundwaves and the lower scale of electromagnetic charging, catch rides on more stationary forms like air. An electromagnetic field can travel through anything that is able to pass the waves cycle ranges. Same with soundwaves. It's part of the interaction. Cycles by nature create harmonics, and these harmonics are subject to the math of physics. If the energies are working together you will experience good harmonic math.



Everything in your system that has a conductive nature will interact with it's own set of electromagnetic fields, as well as interact with the other created fields around it. This is part of the change you hear when moving wires and other parts around. Your literally using your parts and pieces like electromagnetic field antennas.

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PostSubject: Re: electromagnetics "the fields we live in"   Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:50 am

So let me show you something

See the harmonics around the Earth earlier? The same thing happens with your parts.



Every part is creating an electromagnetic field and taking on other parts EMF's.

If you looked at a wire it would be something like this.



Once physics is put into action there is no way to separate the conduit, current, audio code and fields. They are now all one and dependent.

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