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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Wed May 14, 2014 10:59 am

Yes, that's what we tried it on. Looks pretty good. Has the pine grain but a rosewood color.

And yes, the listener deserves to have their dream come true after all these years of trial and error. hit and miss

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Thu May 15, 2014 11:51 am

Just wanted to say hi to some of the Stereophile forum members who have recently joined TuneLand.

Welcome and I hope you make yourselves at home here.

I'm very happy that the phile has let us do some posting there and also letting us put our address on the forum. I think what this does is allow us to talk on Stereophile but also be able to come over to TuneLand and get a little more specific about things that might on stereophile break the rules, like talking about my products directly.

Have fun getting to know the other members and hopely starting your own system threads.

have a great day

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Thu May 15, 2014 12:29 pm

Well

looks like I might not be on stereophile today

I'm not able to log in and the request function is not sending any emails to me  Sad 

I think that maybe their new setup is not fully glich free yet.

 sunny 

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Sun May 18, 2014 12:19 am

Nice to be back on the phile.

Toledo put up and excellent post that I  think sums up this hobby for a lot of folks.


"I think people get used to a certain sized soundstage and think that is all there is to offer.
Likewise, they get used to a certain sound and may not realize what's missing.

The quest then shifts to other areas that are addressed via tweaks, isolation and dampening and room treatment.
There is not much else left other than component and cable swapping.

A little here, a little there which amounts to some seasoning, focus and micro details.

I am not familiar with cork as it is a dampener. I was trying to figure out which one Geoff was using so I could research it to see what properties it had which would not give a dampening effect. He did not provide an answer other than natural cork. I suspect it is cross cut cork, but, I am left scratching my head.

I was always trying to get my highend components to open up not dampen them.

This is the reason I went with low mass as the components react dramatically to various means of tuning. If I do wish to dampen with cork, I know I will hear a Hugh change just like using various wood products. I obviously prefer wood products.

I think this was evident in your use of cork. Your system is so open, you were immediately able to hear its effect which was to dampen.
There is no denying cork is a dampener as it is used in sound proofing applications.
It may work for some folks that are addressing other areas. Not for me."

 Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Wed May 21, 2014 9:42 pm

Time goes on, on the "phile" and I think things are loosening up but what I don't know is why these guys seem to be so afraid to engage in listening.

We're about the easiest people in the world to listen with, so one would think "hey there's a brother let's jamm" but you can feel the resistance to do so.

If I were to stop by someones home we would be listening so what is it that makes these folks not want to be involved with each other in a listening way?

For an industry that should be about sharing, it sure seems like they are right there to be in on the talk but again very little on the actual event.

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Wed May 21, 2014 10:40 pm

Michael Green wrote:
Time goes on, on the "phile" and I think things are loosening up but what I don't know is why these guys seem to be so afraid to engage in listening.

We're about the easiest people in the world to listen with, so one would think "hey there's a brother let's jamm" but you can feel the resistance to do so.

If I were to stop by someones home we would be listening so what is it that makes these folks not want to be involved with each other in a listening way?

For an industry that should be about sharing, it sure seems like they are right there to be in on the talk but again very little on the actual event.

Because folks might hear something they don't agree with and have to eat there words.

Nobody these days wants to admit there wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Wed May 21, 2014 10:55 pm

that's sad to me

I love it when I get turned on to something. I once walked in one of my worker's room, and he had his copy of "amused to death" so dialed in that I couldn't wait to get back to my room and find what he did. He had the thunder rolling completely 360 around his head and big. Bigger than I had it and once I got this to happen on my system it opened up a whole new meaning for the recording. To me, that's what it's about. Recordings really blow my mind, always have. They are so vast and there's always something a little deeper to learn about them when the code is unlocked.

I ran into the fear factor a lot when I went to the trade shows and never understood it. I think the right and wrong thing has been made into a terrible guilt trip in this hobby.

I think the fun of listening, is listening. Know what I mean?

this is about exploring

good to see you  Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Sat May 24, 2014 6:57 pm

Well now I have to say I'm enjoying myself on Stereophile thanks to http://www.stereophile.com/forums/general-discussion/general-rants-n-raves

So nice to get to the listening  Very Happy 

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Sun May 25, 2014 5:01 pm

We're getting to the listening and I'm getting excited Exclamation 

I'm so happy we are getting to soundstaging and other parts of the music on stereophile. I think this is something that has been missing on the pages and I believe as we get further into this we are going to be able to move things forward together instead of the right and wrong thing.

And you know what this means, Very Happy variable tuning will be hitting the pages of Stereophile.  Very Happy 


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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:41 pm

Well  Laughing I was getting excited, but no one there wants to get involved in listening. The Stereophile forum has this amazing ability to turn away from listening to music. It's so bizarre to me. How can people in a music hobby be so removed from music.

Ever go to someones house for diner and you thought you knew the people then as your there a while they start becoming completely different from what you thought they would be like? That's what this forum is like. Their stuck in this world that can't get away from itself and if you introduce them to something they fight it like kids not wanting to get ready for school or go to bed or eat their meal. And we're not talking adults, were talking rude little children that have a point to make at all cost. I have tried every way but tuesday to try to involve them in some listening, you know, that thing we do here every day and love it. Not them their not gonna do it.

let me show you

I asked a question "What if you are playing a drum on your system and you want the body of the drum to come out more, you put on the next recording and want the body of the drum to be less, what would you do?"

It couldn't be answered. I asked the same question again. Still couldn't get an answer, not one that was about music. For the third time I asked the question and tried to make it easier. The guy, who is a designer couldn't understand what the question was. Two post later the OP gets upset cause I wasn't responding to other people the way he wanted me too. On top of this someone thought I was excusing them of not being a serious participant in music endeavors. Who are these people?

I have people telling me not to use the word blockage, but instead call it freeing, and others rambling about sticking pictures in the freezer. And it almost seems like no one there wants to talk about what the hobby is, making a soundstage to listen to. If you start talking about soundstages you can feel the fear. lets not go there it's a trap is the feeling I get. One guy even said that "your not foolin me". Not foolin you, hello thats what we do, isn't it, we listen right? No 

ok, this is stereophile right

on the topic of
classical 5 weeks ago last post
rock 1 week ago, before that 6 weeks
jazz 6 weeks ago
new world music 3 years ago

Let me say again this is stereophile magazine. What has happened to this beautiful hobby Question  I think it was Tim who said the nearest trade show was 2000 miles from him, was that right Tim? That to me is so unbelievable. Thank God you have a club right!

So how does this thing get turned around if these music equipment forums won't talk about music? I know some of the guys up there might be upset cause of the equipment I choose to listen to, but why? Why would any one care about anything other than getting closer to the music? You know since I've been talking up there I've run across one person Tim (our Tim), one who has their speakers out into the room. I'm guessing there's a couple more but who are they? Guys, a high end speaker up against the wall with equipment inbetween and their giving advice. Someone please put me out of my mysery. Am I really seeing what I'm seeing? And if I am seeing this why are these guys acting like we are somehow on the same page? I really really really am not trying to be mr. snob but it's like going back 30 years ago. I think the Stereophile office was the last time I saw a reviewer listening to the speakers up against the wall. Don't get me wrong I respect Linn, but they are specifically making this a part of their sound.

So I have to think through this, This can't really be the industry can it? I see people walking out of my local FRYs with systems every time I go there. My CD shop is packed.

Or may this industry is dead because when people come up to stereophile they read this

"Now you're walking on thin ice! Some psychologists posit the placebo effect is just a creation of our mind while other state that the effects are real, insomuch as the subject can really feel them. Now it depends on which camp you're in, and since psychology is far from being my strong point I won't try to take the quiz.
However I will state that while offering free tweaks based on the placebo effect is just fine, while charging good money for them is a scam!
Now you may ask me why, as part of the placebo effect is "the more it costs, the better it works"? Well, just because (1) this diverts funds from buying tweaks that really work, and (2) because the gullible buyer might have his beliefs overturned anytime, and just be left with less money and a smart looking "thingy" of no use. Well, it might not be a fraud - legally speaking - but I find it to be highly immoral!"

So say I'm mr. new listener and I want to learn about stereo. I come to tweaks to find out how they can help me and I read that. No thanks! There is hardly any place where someone can get started any more. These mind benders completely twist the forums out of shape and no one can dig their way through to what this is all about.

Again I believe in a change but some things must dry up and die first.

should I laugh or cry, oh what have you done to my industry Question 

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:08 pm

Back to listening Amen brother Exclamation 

That was getting way too dark on stereophile for me. I needed to go chill out after those weird vibes.


 Cool 

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:31 am

And now seeing the battle there once again come full circle and the attitudes flair, music walks back in as if nothing has happened. And that peace that it brings starts to change the vibe. Music will always win Exclamation 

I wrote this

"mg walks in the room and starts looking around to find no music. In time he could feel the tension building and when he got further into the some what clouded space he could see the walls were too high and the doors and windows were closed tightly, so mg made his way back to the door he came in and slipped out of the darkness, back into the music room. Within seconds he could see, feel and hear what was missing at the phile.

you can always tell when the music is turn back on Smile"


 Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:10 pm

Hey, Mr. Green,

 Are you feeling those Audio Circle Blues again? I have mentioned this before, but when I contributed to two other forums a few years back about how I was hearing differences in sound quality using different settings on a digital delay, in both forums all I got was someone telling me that it was impossible. I mention the same thing to you back in my early days here and you didn't pooh-pooh my results. Of course, I haven't dealt with that delay unit since because I'm trying to keep it simple, but my point being TuneLand is a peaceful place. I don't see anybody here trying to be Master Audiophile, or My Sound Is Better Than Your Sound.

 It's strange to me that I can learn of you in a home theater magazine and immediately become interested, yet others draw their swords when they see the name Michael Green. What the hell?

 I haven't contributed much here. Yet, I still check in almost daily and I try things all the time. Unfortunately, I still succumb to sleep so quickly during a listening session that I can never get through a CD. It's weird, too, when I go in and out of consciousness; I will acknowledge the start of track 3, doze, and wake up in the middle of track 7, etc. Mostly, it's the old "I hear the change, but is it any good?" kind of thing. But, changes can be made with a little tuning, so I don't know why people on other forums are so incensed by this truth. They ought to check into your history a little and see that you are "in it for the sound" and not trying to squeeze their wallets. Hell, you have given more free advice than probably anybody, so I don't see why you run into constant nonsense.

 In some cases, it reminds me of that scene in the movie "Amadeus" where Mozart is trying to convince the Emperor about something or other. The Emperor's response is, "You have passion but you don't persuade." I reckon you are running up against a lot of Emperors on these other forums.
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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:49 pm

Yup, that forum is something else. All the audio forums are like that though.

The way I figure it,  the highend audio industry has sliced and diced themselves into the minutiae with all the various components, cables, speakers, tweaks, etc..

You factor that in with a small group of vocal techies that lose no opportunity to sharpen their Ginzu knives and want to dissect things further and you have little room for music.

You add in some other folks that have an agenda to disrupt things to their advantage and it makes for a very exhausting environment.

I believe there are listeners on the 'Phile and other forums that lurk but are intimidated by the techies and will not participate or voice their opinions. Who would? A newbie comes on board and asks a question. Immediately all the techie regulars pounce on a new thread ... oooh new subject, let's go guys.

Unfortunately there is not enough activity on the forum to drown out the techie regulars and the cycle of scaring off newbies continues.

I think the reception to tuning has been favorable over there except from those with an agenda that feel threatened by change.

Just need to keep showing people that there is an alternative to the current fixed and limited status quo.

Thank you tuneland. It's always nice to come back.

But, I have to admit, I do like sparring with a certain crusty individual over there who likes to talk in circles in a thinly veiled attempt at self promotion.
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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:38 pm

Hi Guys, great to see you Robert, hope your warming up nice after that winter. Toledo and I live in heaven (the SW) so we feel bad for those who have to be punished every winter. Must be a sin thing  Laughing 

On one side Stereophile is a good thing cause we get a chance to spread the word. Those who have been subject to years of missleading are now able to be exposed to successful listening a little more than beating their heads against the auido wall. Some have found what they are looking for but I see a mass of souls still swimming in muddy waters and having to keep grabbing on to slippery hands to pull them out.

For example on a thread I was talking on this post was put up as advice for someone talking about bass in a smaller room.
__________________________________

"In many instances, small rooms hurt the low end because it's more difficult to properly position the speaker in the room and still have room for functional use. Take a 12x15 room, for example. The center of the speaker driver should be about 3'4" from the side wall and 5'4" from the front wall. That would leave the speakers about 5 foot apart and the listening position about 5' away from the speakers.

That would work for a dedicated listening room, but if you wanted to use the room for things other than listening, you're going to have a hard time unless you are prepared to move your chair and speakers around constantly."
_____________________________________

Need I comment, and yet the industry is full of this and has come to believe in many mythical audio formulas. I hope I can help, but sometimes.......well sometimes. Laughing 

As I said, good to see you guys  Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:14 pm

Robert Harrison wrote:
Hey, Mr. Green,

 Are you feeling those Audio Circle Blues again? I have mentioned this before, but when I contributed to two other forums a few years back about how I was hearing differences in sound quality using different settings on a digital delay, in both forums all I got was someone telling me that it was impossible. I mention the same thing to you back in my early days here and you didn't pooh-pooh my results. Of course, I haven't dealt with that delay unit since because I'm trying to keep it simple, but my point being TuneLand is a peaceful place. I don't see anybody here trying to be Master Audiophile, or My Sound Is Better Than Your Sound.

 It's strange to me that I can learn of you in a home theater magazine and immediately become interested, yet others draw their swords when they see the name Michael Green. What the hell?

 I haven't contributed much here. Yet, I still check in almost daily and I try things all the time. Unfortunately, I still succumb to sleep so quickly during a listening session that I can never get through a CD. It's weird, too, when I go in and out of consciousness; I will acknowledge the start of track 3, doze, and wake up in the middle of track 7, etc. Mostly, it's the old "I hear the change, but is it any good?" kind of thing. But, changes can be made with a little tuning, so I don't know why people on other forums are so incensed by this truth. They ought to check into your history a little and see that you are "in it for the sound" and not trying to squeeze their wallets. Hell, you have given more free advice than probably anybody, so I don't see why you run into constant nonsense.

 In some cases, it reminds me of that scene in the movie "Amadeus" where Mozart is trying to convince the Emperor about something or other. The Emperor's response is, "You have passion but you don't persuade." I reckon you are running up against a lot of Emperors on these other forums.

No doubt.

People, particularly audiophiles seem to no what they no and don't want to hear about anything else. Likely one of the most narrow minded groups you'll encounter.
I hate to say it as I was one, but the analog junkies are the worst, they really don't want to hear about or talk about anything other than vinyl. Nothing wrong with vinyl but why close your mind to such a diverse hobby.

I go out of my way not to pee on anyone's parade no matter what I think.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:34 am

Hi Tim

The designers, engineers and most reviewers are the same way. This is how the whole problem happened, and why the sound has suffered. Even now on stereophile you will see the members defending the sound saying it is improving when it (the high end part) is clearly going backward.



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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:07 pm

Hi Guys wanted to share my latest thoughts on the "phile". Here's a place where I am referencing "modern times" by Dylan.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/lets-do-some-referencing?page=1

It's slow, but step by step I'm determined to help these folks see that they don't have to be prisoners to their over built or sonically stuck systems. There's a lot of talk and reasoning and mostly diversions but when someone mentions a specific recording it gives me a chance to do what I/we do best, listening.

With my search of the truth I must always side with the right side and this doesn't neccessarily mean this is the happiest of results for the audiophile who is off in audiophile-ism-land. I'm not going to side with equipment vs recordings when there is a chance for a piece of music to be revealed in it's truist light, or be condemned unfairly because a listener is viewing the recording from a place of incompleteness.

Truth is "modern times" is one heck of a historical piece of musical story telling done by Dylan and shouldn't be down played. Bob Dylan's recordings that are to be named part of the "trilogy" from this era have given us Dylan all over again. It shows us, Dylan ain't done yet, and shows us this with big beautiful notes.

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:44 pm

Because of the different opinions on the "phile" about Modern Times, I think it stired the interest and I'll be going up on there after my 12:30 meeting to start diving in a little on the recording. I'm hoping for open minds and good dicussions.


 study 

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:41 am

Hi guys

I'm starting sense some sloppy math http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynamics-and-dynamic-range

The audiophile world never runs short of excuses for why their systems don't sound right  Exclamation 

From what I'm gathering the loudness wars ratings are based on a very loose test. Something that I would think something as advanced as high end claims to be would want to be a lot more accurate about.

Read that thread and tell me you feel comfortable with these findings or not. So far I've put on all of their recordings and everything has sounded just fine. Can I hear the compression? Of course but I've heard compression since the very begining of this hobby.

My question is how are they getting the info to sample? Are they putting their cd in the conputers transport? Are they downloading the music off the internet? Once I find this out I'm ready to drop a bomb.

If they read this they can avoid the obvious. If these tests are being made from placing a cd in the computer and running the test. The transport and computer itself has got to settle just like what you guys hear your components do. The longer you play it the better (more settled) the sound is. Same with any component that is dealing with the audio signal. These tests mean very little if this is what they are doing.

I'm listening to one of these CD's now and it has changed so much after one pass through I'm sure the computer would test this dynamic range much different from the first pass. I'm also sure if this is the test that these guys doing it are just throwing on the cd and doing the test right away, but I want to see how these tests are actually done.

 study

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:28 am

I would like more info also. Are the tests done in the digital or analog domain?
If it is digital, they could sample the 0 and 1s.
Given that there are vinyl tests, are they doing an AD conversion or analyzing the waveform?

Regardless of how the tests are done, some hobbyists have decided to leave music on the table due to this issue, which is sad.

I was there, not so long ago, with my system dictating what I could listen to .. So I can relate.
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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:22 pm

Hi Toledo

I'm not at all sure what these tests are at this point. Are they plugging a turntable into the computer somehow, or putting the CD into the transport on the computer?

We need to first of all see what the mechanics of these tests are, and then see what kind of consistancy they have. Then we need to find out why these recordings sound good on our systems and not theirs.

I also want a clear testing done on Geoffs stuff because my tests in the past did not come out as a positive on the cryo thing, but all of these things need to be explored and this time around make a record of it so people have something more concrete.

Lastly I'm tired of the negative tone and if the readers their don't put their foot down to these negative guys I'm done with it.

Too much to be positive about in this industry to have to spend time fighting the negative.

People wonder why I put down the audiophile game, their seeing why first hand.

First, it isn't what it claims to be and second why would anyone want to be a part of a negative music hobby?

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:53 am

Agreed Michael. Not just at Stereophile but this hobby in general has more than it's share of na-sayers.

There are so many great things to talk about and discuss yet there is a large number of folks that just want to pee on are parade.

Not only negative people in a positive arena but narrow minded folks that get mad and rude if we don't agree with there ideas, no matter how bizarre they might be.

Anyway, I'd better go back to the listening room as I hear Eva Cassidy getting ready to sing to me.

Have a grand day all.
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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:59 pm

Hi Tim, have fun Exclamation 

To me, negative interpreted means bad sound and not wanting the rest of the rest of the listening world to be happy.

Notice when Doctor Fine came up and gave his reference on the crickets on Abbey Road and said everyone knows this, the crickets on his system is different from what is really going on, but I kept my mouth shut. He has a system problem that was able to be seen, and if he was a cool guy others could help him with that, but he is one of many that centers the universe around him instead of joining the listening world and all of us being there for the others.

God complex I think they call it. When we in this hobby don't take the time to let the ears of others help us we pretty much only get to a certain level and stop. From that point we think we are right and the rest of the world is wrong. Again a reason why I love having a system made to explore the signal from more than one point of view.

good to see you

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PostSubject: Re: Stereophile forum   Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:50 pm



God complex, good one, haven't heard that one for a while, lol .....
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