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 Billiam System

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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:20 pm

I'll try to see where some pics are but all you'll need to do or have your guy do is replace the power cord with 22 gauge solid core or my Picasso type 1 and a simple end. The rest is done through tuning the vibrations which I can walk you through when the time comes.

top is the power for a receiver, below the cable end



below is the power cord replaced



here's one completely stripped


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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:00 pm

I have to admit, I doubt I can utilize equipment that is exposed like this until I buy another home and can devote a room for listening only. The current home's layout will prohibit any kind of exposed equipment. And the way that is wired into the AC outlet merits concern as well. I have pets and this will present an issue.

I will have to concentrate on using the equipment I have in its present form, and then work on placement and then using your blocks. Not sure I can do anything else until I have another house.
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:11 am

Hi Billiam

I have lots of tricks for you to try if you want that don't cost a dime when you get settled. One to do even where you are at. Since you don't want to expose your electric (don't blame you) is loosen the screws on your electric outlets and on your components. Anything in your system that creates tension like speaker driver screws or any screws any where. I would do this step by step so you hear each change.

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:15 pm

Michael. Thanks. I will certainly try those that are feasible given the situation I've got. Already just the changes made to the DVD player have yielded great results. Today I played some old Tommy James and The Shondells songs and Iron Butterfly and my jaw nearly hit the floor after hearing the audio quality. Even my Mirage OM 10's paired with the Qinpu could not reproduce this kind of sound. While the omnipolar technology cannot be reproduced by the Jamo's and Topping system, I am still completely happy with the improved detail and "live" concert sound I am hearing. The quality of the older recordings I just mentioned have never sounded this good.

I am going to purchase the http://www.parts-express.com/topping-tp60-tripath-ta2022-50wpc-(80wpc-4-ohm)-mini-amplifier--310-326 very soon to replace the Topping TP21. The 25 wpc the TP21 has into 4 ohms just won't cut it with an 8 ohm speaker. My Jamo's are 6 ohm and the amp will at least provide decent loudness up to a moderate level. Tried pushing it up to a loud level which is something I will need once in a while and the distortion was soon evident.

In light of this I may have to rethink using any kind of 8 ohm speaker with a T Class amp. I will see how the Dayton B652 plays with the TP60 amp and decide if I should stick with a 6 ohm speaker for my next set or choose a 4 ohm which will likely match up best.
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:22 pm

Another questions. What kind of foam or stuffing should I use in a speaker after I remove the existing stuff? and how much and where do I put it?
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:59 pm

Isn't this fun Exclamation 

There's nothing like shaping your own sound. It gives a new meaning to the hobby, and if you do go backward for a moment once you get enough of the tools you can find your starting point again and move forward.

Before too long your going to be wanting to talk to Harold harold@michaelgreenaudio.com about RoomTune pillows, but back to the speakers. When you remove some of the foam stop and listen so you can hear it going in a direction. If you get to the point where it is all out, go to your Home Depot and get a can of water based Varathene. If it's easier for you to spray do that, but if not get the liquid. It's not cheap but worth every drop.

I can't really tell you how to bake the speaker cause I'm not there, but if you can get your place somehow down below 20% humidity before applying that makes a big difference, if not you will still do good. I don't really want to share my secrets in voicing cause I'm fond of eating but you can voice the inside of the speakers your own way. If you do decide to put back in some filler, look at fiberglass instead of foam. A hint: ceiling tiles, plastic one side fiberglass the other. Don't use a lot just find the key places inside the cabinet to tune. The fiberglass will go facing out (facing not into the speaker but facing the inside walls of the speaker).

I've just told you enough to be very dangerous. But also keep your eyes open, there's a rumor that tunable speakers might be going into production soon.

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:06 pm

I just had a thought and wanted to get feedback on it.

If you noted in the photos that the recessed area in the room is on either side of the fireplace and that area is roughly 4 feet by 15 to 20 inches deep on both sides.

If I were to find a fairly large and tall book case, fill it with books and put it in the recessed area on the side of the living room without the windows, do you think I would be able to use rear ported speakers in there and not have an accoustical mess?
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:07 pm

Hi Billiam

Have you moved in yet? I wouldn't put bookshelves in unless they had wooden front doors. I have some ideas once you get moved as to maybe how to setup things once I see your furniture in the room.

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:37 pm


I will see if I can find a book case that has a wooden door or doors on it that will fill the space. If not, I will have to work around it and stick with the original plan to use non rear ported speakers placed in the recesses of the wall.

I will post a photo of the living room with furniture once it is in place. Most of it is light weight stuff and not high profile.

I have not moved in yet. Still some work to do around the place before I can move. Should be in a few months.
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:38 am

Can you recommend a good pair of stands for bookshelf speakers? Price hopefully will be no more than $100.00 for a pair.
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:45 pm

Hi Billiam

That's a tall order. I haven't really looked at stands as much since I've been making my own. I do believe that these may be marketed soon but the price will be way over that. Atlantis use to make a stand that we changed the plates to wood, but I don't know off hand if these are still made or not. Let me do some looking and thinking.

BTW look at Toledo's thread http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t226-toledo-s-system .

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:00 am

Hi Billiam,

The stands on my thread are Sanus Foundations Ultimate 26" (uf26)

They are no longer made. They were an upscale line they carried, but I guess too much for current market. They are about 3 months old and filled with sand.

It just so happens that I am switching them out for a pair of stands that are custom sized to my speakers. The new stands will arrive this Mon, 4/14.

The Sanus are just going to collect dust once I swap them out. They are yours if you want them. Just pick up shipping cost and packing materials which will likely be around your price point.

PM me and we can discuss if you are interested.
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:21 pm

Michael:

Toledo told me that you build speakers. In what price range?

Also, I was wondering if different kinds of wood will achieve different results with different components? Example will a soft wood like pine match up better with a certain component while hardwoods such as Birch work better with other components for tuning?
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:57 pm

Hi Billiam

Good to see you. Yes I do speakers and we are about to bring out the new lineup this year we hope. Harold and I are talking about pricing almost as we speak. The pricing will depend on if the woodshop here in Vegas will be able to come close to my voicing or if I will need to do the voicing myself or train some to do it with me.

I've been wanting to do a speaker line again for a long time now but finding the people to voice wood like I do has been a challenge. It's not just knowing how to find the wood, but it's what to do with it that makes the tone and musicality come to life. I'm at that point that I have found how to make wood into something pretty special now it's making this wood into a speaker that goes beyond what I have done in the past, which if you look at the old speakers were something pretty special. Yet, I need to go further and produce something that can turn High End Audio into what the tunees feel it should be. I don't know if you've looked over www.tuneland.info at all but you will see some of the history in woodworking that has been done in the past. Take a look at Jim Bookhard's threads and on this forum Drewsters and some of the others and you will see pics of my speakers. Also http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t72-mga-speakers .

I'm for sure going to do a mini monitor cause one has never been done right yet. The Studio 5's weren't mini monitors but were great bookshelf monitors. I'm going to make minis that go well down into the 40's if not 30's. Speakers, any speakers should be full range. My latest speakers will be crossoverless. I made this move back in the early 2000's, and have been doing it ever since.

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:44 pm

as far as wood blocks and pieces

I've been doing this a long time as well. I'm finding new woods but have narrowed down my search to some pretty amazing pieces of wood. But again it's not just the wood but how this wood is made to sound. If someone went to their local lumber yard and picked out a piece of pine for example and brought it home and put it under their component it would sound pretty poor in comparison to a well cured voiced) piece. Not only does it depend on how the wood was cut and stored but also the fomula used to make that piece of wood sing.

Now after these pieces of wood are done I listen to what the listener is getting and from that I pretty much know what is going on with the wood he is using.

Wood needs to also be able to go full range. If it creates a one note bass like maple commonly does that's cool for drums but horrible for playback where you need the full spectrum. Maple can be blended with other woods but a piece of western red cedar for example right out of the starting gate (if it is nice and dry) will run circles around the maple. It's important to know what instruments do, but it's also important to know their range and the tone aspects of those instruments.

Picking out the wood is also an art, and if you get your chops down in how to do this and you have a good audio memory you might be walking around the yard and find some real gems. Once you find that gem you need to know what kind of sand paper and what grit is the right one to start with. This is one of my secrets. If you use the wrong grit to do that first sand you will ruin the piece of wood and might as well go back to the beginning. So first, it's find that good sounding piece, 2nd, find the right time to sand it (the right humidity level) and time of day. If you sand a piece for example and where you are at it dips 20 degrees at night you are doomed if you don't know what to do. That piece of wood in the morning will sound pitchy and sterile. There's a certain way of voicing that I have learned over the years that I have to follow to turn that good sounding piece of wood into something great and one mistep and I know that it isn't what it should be. Drives me crazy sometimes but that's also why I love this. That's my only secret give away for today  Razz 

to answer the question about different woods for different things

Yes, our components can be voiced like a fine guitar if we are patient and listen closely to what the signal is telling us. As you can see on tuneland I strongly recommend making your components tunable before getting too crazy on the voicing thing. There's a lot more sound in your components than you think and the quicker we learn this the faster we can get to tuning in the sound. We have to remind ourselves that this hobby in the higher end is based on guys designing their products for a particular sound and because of that they may be so fixed in that sound that they almost become anti-tunable (inflexible) and can drive you nuts when you are trying to get a flavor of audio you want. For this reason and a ton of listening I have found it's a lot better to go with products that are easier to tune. The music will be there (it's not going any where) but if you have a system that you make to play it, the difference is remarkable. Ask the guys here and they will tell you just how much more music is there to listen to.

happy to have you here  Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:34 pm

Thanks Michael. Happy to be here too!

Wood question. IKEA has tables made from solid pine and birch. Would one work better than the other for my system or can you tell which sonic characteristics might be enhanced or subdued with either kind of wood? Since they are a Swedish company I would think they are using wood from Sweden.
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:59 pm

Hi Billiam

Both of these woods are on my list. Could you look up the weights? This would tell you which one has cured more. The lighter one will more than likely have more full range tone. Do you want to send me the links?

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:18 am

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:58 pm

Hi Billiam

I would go with the pine. You'll get the fullest range with this one for sure.



This is going to look and sound very cool. I can see nice LTR Blocks on there, sweet!

How long before you move in?

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:16 pm

Michael Green wrote:
Hi Billiam

I would go with the pine. You'll get the fullest range with this one for sure.



This is going to look and sound very cool. I can see nice LTR Blocks on there, sweet!

How long before you move in?

Thanks. Will buy the Pine table then. Will get some of your blocks once I get into a house. No point in the current apartment since it is a temporary stay.

I am a bit hesitant to move into my existing house because a problem has suddenly cropped up with the owner of the home adjacent to my own. Me thinks it may be a major issue in the future and so I am going to try to buy another home instead. If I have to, I will move into the existing home by this Fall and hope for the best but continue to look for a home that is not only better suited for audio listening (sheet rock walls, a driveway or at least more on street parking and a neighbor that won't violate my personal space or break into my home thinking he has a legal right to do so.

Yes, I am really looking forward to setting up this new system and properly at that. Even though I don't have a lot of money to spend, it already seems as though I will be getting sound that is far superior with the newer equipment to anything that I owned in the 80's despite having spent several thousand on gear!
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:20 pm

Hi Billiam

Very sorry about the homestead, but it sounds like your able to deal with it without yanking out your hair. Good for you, who needs stress right. A home is suppose to be about peace "and a really good sounding system Wink "

On the system side it's a wise man who keeps himself from getting in the trap of complexities. Discovering that the audio signal is delicate and able to be voiced changed my entire life.

When you find some homes feel free to send pictures my way and I'll be happy to take a peek at possible rooms. In the meantime if you have the system setup let me know how the table sounds.

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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:00 pm

Thanks Michael. Yeah, I have not even moved into the place yet and I already have a major problem. Since the owner of the home next to mine seems to have very little respect for my property, I suspect his tenants will follow suit.

As soon as I am able, I will post pictures. May take a while since over the years I've had terrible luck finding a house.
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Thu May 01, 2014 12:17 am

Well there's always Vegas, then I could come over and tune.

I think we ought to move everyone here and I can go house to house listening.




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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Thu May 01, 2014 6:30 am

At this point, I am open to relocation if I am unable to find a more suitable house in the current area of Cincinnati. I know someone that lived in LV for a while and I will try to get his opinion of it. My older sister lives in the Prescott area of Aridzona and my brother lived in the Phoenix area for a while. Probably a similar climate to both since it is quite dry there. Will at least look into it. I have a friend in WA state that would like me to move out there. He and his wife have been there a few years and seem content there.

I noted that you also spend time in Ohio. Since I am presently in Indiana, I am not far from OH. Do you have any kind of show room that displays your speakers? Looked into the prices on an older link and I could probably afford one of the entry level speakers at some point, if I don't run into too many complications with the next house. I would need to listen to them first before buying unless you offer a money back guarantee of some type.
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PostSubject: Re: Billiam System   Thu May 01, 2014 9:08 am

Hi Billiam

That's a big jump from out east to out west, however I love the climate here and the energy. There's something about the SW that is liberating.

I always wanted to live out here ever since my first visit. Washington is nice too but way to cold and wet for me personally. I need sunshine.

I haven't really kept track of who has speakers. I'm in my own world so deep that I'm more in the moment and if I don't have someone managing things I loose contact easily. Always had a manager growing up and up till a few years ago. They were my other half to my brain I think. When and if you get more serious about speakers we'll talk to Harold and see what can be arranged for you to listen. I like being involved with the tunees systems as you can probably tell. When it comes to the listening and voicing part I like to be a part of their sound. Like with Hiend001 walking through the Blocks and stuff. If you say the sound is one way and I can picture what your hearing I can usually be a part of the tuning in.

I would love to get the speaker production rolling again. There's a change going on in High End and I hope listeners will continue to find us so we can help with their sound. I think the hobby got a little component and plug and play crazy but now I see them wanting to go back to the sound more instead of being a little trapped in the replacement game. Every listener wants great sound, but this industry is in many ways run by people who themselves are not exactly practicing listeners. Use to be different and you could create packs of listeners who followed and helped each other but then it turned into the revolving door of selling and buying and literally thousands lost their way. I find a lot of people saying they wish they could go back to basic and start again, so I'm glad when they find us, cause that's what we do. Start with the basics of solid practice then work through the listeners ears.

you've done a good job of letting me/us see into your listening and as this continues it will keep making it easier to dial (tune) in your sound, and do it in your budget hopefully. There's always a way and it's getting to know each other as listeners that makes it happen.

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