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 Toledo's system

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:38 am


Hello Toledo

I remember you posted on my thread this "Put two pictures of yourself, one when young and the other when you are older in plastic bags and in the freezer....I wonder what would happen if I put pictures of my high end components in the freezer .."

It is really funny and from the same source from Britain, Sonic has read that:

a. You can take a square of plain paper (maybe 3" x 3") and slip it under one of the legs of any four-legged furniture in your listening room -- and you will hear a change.

b. If you have fabric curtains in your, fold one corner up and hold it with a clip of some sort.

You are supposed to hear a difference ......

It gets even more bizarre from here, like tying reef knots in your wires, and Sonic would prefer not to go into this craziness. The Tune gives real improvements but the fringe stuff of the audio world like these paper and curtain tricks and the effects on sound of IP addresses is not.

Sonic

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Toledo



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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:51 pm

Hey sonic,

Yeah some interesting stuff. My head hurt after visiting the site and trying to figure out how the stuff worked. I gave up.

I like the "you will hear a change", the question is will it be a good change Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:59 am

Hello Toledo

Yes, often when an outcome is expected we start imagining changes that are not there.

Give you an example: the paper square under the furniture leg trick. I tried it on a friend's system, the listener knowing I was adding something but unable to see what I was doing as his speakers were in the way. I placed the paper square under the leg of a shoe rack, yet he reported a difference. Later we both consciously removed the paper and heard not a difference.

I wonder too if a determined mindset of disbelief negates any changes. Some time ago, an audiophile of a slightly cynical disposition and I went to a demo of some Ebony Disc that when placed on CD players, amps, speaker cabinets in threes allowed the soundstage to be shaped by simply moving them in relation to one another.

We were with a few other listeners and the demo started. The Demonstrator said that moving the Discs further apart will expand the soundstage. He did that and most in the room went "WOOH!' but this audiophile of a slightly cynical disposition had in our own ways decided that moving the Ebony Discs about will not change the soundstage size no matter what. We heard absolutely nothing. And I had the Discs in my system and could not hear any difference that could be attributed to their presence or magical properties.

Have a look at Sonic's thinking (posted today) on what I did to open a new front of sound reproduction in my system/dwelling.

Sonic
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Toledo



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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:20 pm

Ahhh nice to back on tuneland. It's always so nice and relaxing over here ... Nothin but the tune and some jams.

Going to listen to system after a few days of settling of new wood bypasses.

Time to chill.

I see my "to buy" list has just gotten longer based on all the fabulous suggestions by ya'll. I have a few on the list that need to get into rotation especially my collection of Traffic.
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:28 pm

Traffic Oh My!

Low spark, that's some serious warmth.



 Cool  better where my shade, that's some cools-ville

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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:44 pm

Might start with some Barleycorn which I haven't heard in ages and then finish off with some Low sparks. Oh yeah.
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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:12 am

Nice!

I'm listening to opera tonight. I'm doing my own little study on how the opera pieces were recorded differently than the orchestra alone pieces. I did these in Atlanta back to back in the hall and wanted to revisit the experience. Totally different when the orchestra is in the pit and the stage has sets.


have fun Exclamation 

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Toledo



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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:37 am

Listening to Harvest tonight after Traffic during the week. I thought I knew these albums. What I have been hearing is nothing like I have experienced before on my older systems. It's hard to put to words, but, each tunee knows what I am referring to when an old album is first heard on a tuned system.

The system is still tuned for Genesis for richness and impact. It has settled down into some magic after the wood bypass for the shelves.

These albums are presented full and rich from front to back, with uncanny, effortless, natural ease of detail. The harmonics, reverberance, echo and dynamics of Harvest are incredible. The guitar thumps and layered vocals are way cool. On War of Man the female vocals that start on back left stage are huge and really take you by surprise.

I have two words for you Michael ... Thanks bro.
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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:53 pm

Your welcome, and welcome to the tunes version of these great recordings. It indeed is a new and different hobby to enter the world of the signal being set free. As much as high end audio has given it's still a shock moving from high end to tunable. It has been incredible watching people who probably have really good systems move to yet that next level. It's a level that moves beyond equipment and transends equipment matching and mass. Freedom is a very good word, and I'm glad this was used on stereophile instead of blockage, but I feel removing the blockage is the way to freedom and this is something they will never experience untill it is done, and then and only then, can a person get their first glance at what is really there. An image that has this quality of equal space delivery.

enjoy  Smile and keep giving that positive vibe to those who deserve to find their hobby for real. It's you guys telling the rest of the listening world the truth that makes the difference. And for that I say "thank you bro Smile ". It's all about helping others.

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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:47 pm

Hi Toledo

It has dawned on me that you have the latest version of the FUNAI.

Mine gave up the ghost 3 days ago and I went and picked up 2 more. When I got them home I opened one up to do my usual thing and behold, different. Panic set in, that is until I plugged it in  Smile 

I have to wait until 7 to 10 days of constant play, but I'm almost certain that this unit has even more resolution. I'm not sure at this point if it is going to be as warm cause my old one was very burnt in, but if it does, Oh my  Exclamation 

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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:41 pm

I have been thinking of re-arranging my room layout and flipping it 90 degrees.
The idea is to setup system on long wall of room and allow more near field setup of monitors.

I would move the sofa to where the bookcase is currently and stand the bookcase upright and move to where the left speaker is.

The speakers would go on either side of sofa and I would have room to get them as close as I want.

I am after more wrap around soundstage doing this.

There are some issues which must be weighed using this approach.

1. There would be a lot of clutter on walls behind the speakers due to upright bookcase, equipment setup and an additional small bookcase for printers and networking equipment.

2. I doubt I could ever use floor standing RT or PZC since the wall facing the sofa is the desk area. I could maybe move them into place each time I wish to listen, but, this could get to be a pain and I may eventual tire of it.

3. One channel speaker wiring would have to go under sofa and may not be able to rise it above flooring.

4. Platforms would have to be rethought due to smaller wall space in front of window.

5. One side of sofa would have the large floor standing lamp with huge lamp shade right in front of the either the left or right speaker.

What do think, Michael? Do the potential benefits of near field and more front to back space for speaker layout and hugging side walls outweigh the limits I listed above.

I really want to get a more immersive, wrap around soundstage and don't think I can achieve it with current room layout.
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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:58 pm

Hi Toledo  Very Happy 

Do you have a drawing?

I'm doing some thinking outloud here, so might be some edits to this post.  Idea 

"I have a 10'6" by 13' by 8' high room that has concrete floors covered with wall to wall carpeting."

front



back



right side



left side


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Toledo



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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:10 pm

Haven't posted in a while. Trying to decide if I should flip the room 90 degrees.

I have decided to stay with current layout due to limited space to place platforms.

So I march forwards with current layout.

Last night I embarked on some system mods by stripping the outer jackets from the stock amp and CD player power cords leaving the inner neutral and hot wires. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be as I used the inner wires as leverage to split the outer jacket once I got a clean cut into it. It's nice to just see the white and black internal wires nicely freed from their confines and can separate them to reduce interaction.

I also made up new set of speaker cables of solid core 22 gauge wire and heat treated them.

The system was completely torn apart and will take awhile to settle and I let it play overnight. This morning I noticed a more laid back soundstage further back behind the speakers and spread out and more coherent that previously ( previous speaker cables pushed the presentation a bit forward.) The layering is more pronounced and all the instruments fit together better.

This morning I worked on something I have been wanting to do for awhile. I moved the speakers as far into the room as space allows and closer to side walls. They are 36" out from back wall and 6" out from side walls ( to edge of speaker side.) The speaker fronts are practically flush with the opening of the alcove area ( in above pics.)

System has been settling for about 6 hrs of play and the overall tonality of system has improved. The mids have warmed up nicely and are more natural sounding. The highs blend in better and are not as aggressive, although I still need work in that area. The harmonics and decay have improved as well. I am hearing additional as well as more naturally fleshed out details as well. The soundstage shifted a tiny bit to right and will have to work on that once I give it a week or two and see how all the changes settle.

All in all good mods and having fun.

Michael, I have been keeping an envious eye on your new monitors. That blackened Brazilian pine looks awesome and is a perfect blend of form and function. Can't wait for more reporting from you on them.
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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:23 pm

Hi Toledo

I've been breaking the "mandolin's" in for 4 days now and am going to give them few more before going in and starting my voicing. Been listening to "selling england" as well as "the cars".

Hardwood speakers I can tell already, need to have special care with the voicing. There are things appearing in the music that take me by surprise and at times a little scary. One thing that was apparent right from the start is how much more dependent the full fiber design is on the stands and platform below. These speakers do not want to be independent of anything in the room or upstream. They activate when you bring them into the room. These speakers are not going to be for the faint at heart when it comes to setup. And even though they are merely babies the dynamic range is almost disturbing Laughing or at least alarming Shocked . I usually set the volume at night and listen to them off and on while resting. Well with these speakers I would wake up and say "the system must have shut off" I would get up to go start it again, then be shocked by the piece of music coming to life and even running me over with volume. If this is the beginning of things to come I will need to get use to a new meaning for "dynamic contrast".

The Music Ply I have figured out (and oh do they sound nice, maybe 30% better than the old ones), but this toy is a monster. I'll need to do some careful voicing around the drivers, as well as the over all, cause they tell all. I'm so tempted to dive in but I need to let them cure and vibrate. I will say this though. When I go downstairs it does feel like there is a rock band up stairs. Also even at medium volumes, sitting in the room my chest arms and legs vibrate to the music.

Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:13 am

Micheal,

The settling and burn-in of system around the new solid core cables and speaker position has reinforced my initial impressions of more laid back soundstage with better tonality and richer more defined details. I am hearing new detail such as the subtle twang of reverberations of guitar strings (and their room echo) which I had not noticed  before on Harvest. Nice.
I am hearing more roundness and can hear more front to back miking patterns as well.

I have moved the seating position back 6" closer to back wall which fleshed out the low/mids nicely. I also removed the room tunes on back mid wall and mid side walls to start reshaping the zones.

I tried flipping the back corner roomtunes to burn side out like Sonic did, but, that didnt last too long and flipped them back. It shrank the soundstage and it impacted tonality. Felt like I was going back to old days of dampening.

I have been busy with my other hobby as well since winter photo season is starting up now that the heat is dying down. Should get the southern migrations soon as well as the snowbirds Wink

Heres a little fellow I got last weekend in the wild. Had a few secs to get a couple bursts off before he squawked and took off to let me know what he thought of me. Green backed heron.



Tonights listening is courtesy of some bad dudes. These guys have such a raw energy to them.

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:26 am


Hi Toledo

Sonic too moved away from the CornerTunes turned absorptive side out. In my case, the bass end thinned out in a funny way with some parts emphasized and the bottom end thinned.

Good pix of the heron.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:25 pm

Hi Toledo

That is outstanding Exclamation What a beautiful pic Exclamation

You should post more, a great sense of 3D. Interesting how the wing is tucked under the body feathers in kind of a cuddle. I never thought about that before.

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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:30 pm

Hello Tuneland,

I have been away for some time .. life got in the way.

Wanted to give everyone a glimpse of where my audio journey is currently taking me.

I have decided to start over, literally from the ground up.

Michael and I have been discussing a full width system platform for a while and I finally decided it was time. The idea is to get everything up off the concrete/carpet and provide a foundation to build upon using additional equip/speaker platforms, etc...

MGA kindly agreed to consult on the project. Michael provided the brains (and an inexhaustible supply of patience) and I provided the brawn. Keep in mind, this is only a facsimile of what MGA would produce with their wood sources and selection, curing, design, manufacture and finishing of their products. I only went this route to get the satisfaction of beating this troublesome room into submission  Twisted Evil
The real juice will come in the form of MGA platforms and PZC’s.  cheers

This is picture of the system platform in my makeshift finishing room. I can think of worse ways to spend a nice day outside  Cool



This is the system platform in my office. Isn’t it purdy Wink



The system platform is 10’ by 3’.

Try to visualize the system platform with an equipment platform with PZC’s behind it. It will also have speaker platforms.

Everything will be low to ground, even the speakers,  which will allow the front wall to pressurize nicely with no obstructions.
I plan on initially mounting the speakers directly on the speaker platforms and tilted up towards listening position. I have tried this approach already and have found a lot of the tone I have been searching for. Will see where this takes me.

In a life style setup like my room, I think this system platform will work well. I don’t have the space in my multi purpose room like some other tunees (green with envy) to do a full near field setup.

Since installing the platform, the room is already opening up acoustically. Good things to come ... Laughing

Michael and I are currently discussing what the equipment/speakers platform configuration and design will be.

Cant wait to get it all put together.

Its good to be back on Tuneland.
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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:49 pm

Great having you home Toledo Exclamation


Pics look fantastic Smile



Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Toledo's system   Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:00 pm

Great to hear from Toledo Exclamation

I promised I wouldn't post premature photos, but I couldn't help myself from at least putting up a bait photo to show our friend is alive and well. Wink


"as you can see from attached photos, I have flipped the room 90 degrees and have the entire room to play with" toledo

Yes, the room has flipped and there's more, but I'll resist......maybe......you guys know I can't help but share the fun study

good to hear from you Smile

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