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 Greetings from malaysia

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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:41 am

thanks TJ















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Last edited by Michael Green on Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:00 am

hi Michael

I was listening yesterday night and after mapping out the transitional zone of open and close feel I would want to try out by moving my equipments and using the TV wall as my front wall as you have previously mentioned instead of my current setup. This will be a good comparison to see how will it sound in different position. I will report in on it within these few days time.

Also i missed your previous question on racks vs platforms. I have recently purchased the rack that i am using currently ( how unfortunate was i to realize about your tunable racks after I purchased my current ones) trust me i am regretting every bit of it Mad . However the rack i currently have is actually a modular type whereby i can place it like a rack(stack it up on top of each other) or as an individual platform like arrangement. The feets can be adjusted too.

I will send some pictures of the rack soon.

Thanks

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:58 pm

the equipment stand






















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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:53 am

Managed to get hold 4 pieces of chinese pine wood block. Will slide it under my speakers and update my findings.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:38 pm

So I placed wooden planks under my speakers, listened for about 45 minutes. The wooden plank raised my speakers by 2 inches( couldn't get anything within the 4"-5" range). From my listening impression I found that the soundstage increased in height, felt the music sounded distant its like the singer and the whole band took 2-3 steps backwards. The energy and intensity of the music decreased and the highs sounded muffled. It was more of 2D than 3D. The low notes was not clear and sounded loose.  This was not to my likings Crying or Very sad

However Michael said to raise the fabers by 4-5", so i slumbered down my sitting position to about 3"-5" here's where i felt the energy of the sound increased the focus was more and 3D sound was felt but not so great. The separations of instruments was better but still sounded muffled. Also the low notes was better but not great it sounded not defined as how it was without the planks.

As in of now leaving the speakers not raised sounded the best (coherent, clearer,more energy, bass notes more defined,holographic) , second will be when i raised the speakers while hunched down and last will be listening the raised speakers(2") in a regular sitting position.

Maybe its not fair to bring out any sort of conclusions yet as it raises few questions that the height was not optimal using the planks (2"). Also hunching down at my sitting position to compensate the suboptimal height for the speakers gave me an awkward listening position.

Hope Michael could shed some light on this Smile

Thanks

Regards

TJ
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:15 pm

Hi TJ

this is what I wanted to hear

"From my listening impression I found that the soundstage increased in height, felt the music sounded distant its like the singer and the whole band took 2-3 steps backwards."

and here

"here's where i felt the energy of the sound increased the focus was more and 3D sound was felt "

and again here

"The separations of instruments was better"

The negative points are understandable.

Here's what we know so far, there's energy there and the Faber's react to mechanical grounding. We can either move forward to the next step of learning or do you want to flip the speakers first?

this is all helpful to me

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:42 pm

Hi Michael  and fellow tuners

Thanks for the reply i understand now.
I think it is better for me to flip the position first and compare how does it sound and get back to you regarding on it. I am also planning to do a separate dedicated electrical line wall outlet and it will be better to identify first on the listening positions before i commit myself on a dedicated line.

Thanks

Regards

TJ
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:41 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

So I have finally repositioned my system and sofa using my tv side as my front wall.

Speakers are 4 feet away from the front wall and 3 feet away from the sides. Speakers are 8.5 feet apart distance from sitting position is around 10 feet (slightly more distant in comparison from my previous setup).

The equipment's have been laid out on the platform vertically and not stacked up as previously done

Will update on my listening impression later as it was a real back breaker for me shifting them around Laughing

Pictures will be up for Michael and others to view and comment/advise..
Thanks

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:09 am

After a good session of listening and never to forget accompanying me good a glass of the finest whisky. I have finally concluded in comparison of my previous setup that the current position of my setup is a much better placement.

The sound is much more coherent and balance. There is more ambience and feel to the music, highs are present and airy. Bass was lesser in comparison to previous but much more accurate the lower notes was easier to follow. The attack was more I could hear those finer sounds that was missing previously. As others would say PRAT was more. Other thing I noticed was when I move my head the center was present at a much wider space than before (previously if I move my head by 5" sound will focus to the speakers now it more at around 10")

However the downsides I felt was the energy at midrange was slightly lesser than before. Vocals was not popping out towards me(if I increase the volume then only I can feel that). There was slight sibliance heard and echoes was present more than before. The energy from midrange was definitely affected. Soundstage width is now from speaker to speaker (my right side previously the music will pass the boundry of right speaker but now limits to the speaker). As for the soundstage height it was the same as before, it is between my speaker to ceiling.

One thing I noticed was that if I switch on my dining lights (which is currently behind my listening position) the overall sounding of my system was slightly better. Now that caught me by surprise.

So by this exercise I will definitely be keeping my system in this current position as it was overall better sounding than before.

Thanks

Regards

Tj
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:15 am

Hi TJ

Now we're talking.



I can see all kinds of possibilities moving forward now.



A question about the electric run. Do you have the option of not runing the wire through the wall?

How close is the fuse box, can I see it?

How do you like the equipment on platforms vs rack?

Usually I don't like a sofa in front of the speakers but I bet this helps to block some of the curtain sound. Plus you have leather, wise!



I have to run quick but will come back in a bit.



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:39 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners,

To answer your question, yes I do have the option and am planning to run a dedicated line not through the wall.It will be running inside of the corner walls (where the soffits are).

The distance of my fuse block to my system is 33-35 feet.I will upload the pictures of my fuse block and where i will be running it and planning to install the wall socket and receptacle.

As for the platform and rack either way looking at it currently having a rack will be obstructive towards the TV screen and also the sound from speakers so platforms is the way for me to move forward. Only thing are the cables which right now are crossing each other.
Need to plan out properly on where am I going to install the wall socket.

Thanks

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:35 am


Hello TJ

Your system is looking right this way....sometimes Sonic wonders if we partially hear with our eyes and see with our ears (like the images in the soundstage).

Do you get images or a soundstage that extends beyond the outside edges of your speakers?

Was noticing that your power amp sits on a panel that is placed on a carpet. Sonic remembers in my system, in the days when Michael was changing my brain towards the tune, I had a thick carpet in my room, a bigger amp (than what I use now) that sat on a piece of wood which in turn was placed on the carpet like in your listening room now.

I found a noticeable improvement in clarity when my amp and its wood support sat directly on the floor, things were more veiled when this sat on the carpet. It might have been the carpet allowed a slight unsteadiness in the coupling or obstructed the mechanical grounding of the amp. Give it try by placing your amp/wood support on your floor -- your experience might be different since Sonic has parquet over concrete while you have tile.

Sonic did however find that my amp then and now had to couple to the floor through an interface layer like a wood panel or now with Low Tone Redwood block. Sitting the amp directly on the floor with its stock feet did not allow me to hear the amp at its best.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:03 am

Hi Sonic

You could be right cause I took the feet for the amp platform out as it sounded better that way. I was thinking about it too yesterday when I was re arranging  the system and should try to place the platform directly on the tiled floor but the issue was my distribution block power chord was slightly short. So I left it as such for the time being.

Will try to changed the placement for my AVR and decoder in the cabinet and see how it goes from there.

As of now I hear where the placement of the instruments are and can see certain notes well but the boundaries are up to the width of the speakers doesn't extend beyond the speakers as in comparison to my previous set up(previous set up the right side extended well beyond the speaker at about 2 feet).

However at this current set up it sounded clearer and coherent (not great but better than previous )

Thanks

Regards

Tj
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:36 pm

here's several pictures




























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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:23 am

Hi fellow tuners

Today I spend some time listening. Now it is sounding better than before. It is amazing to hear the changes in sound when moving around objects like stools, racks and boxes. It's like there is a shift of tones, palpable sound from different music notes and the height of the soundstage seems to be changing too.

But one thing I felt the vocals was always positioned slightly towards the left of my listening position, this is when I am looking straight towards the soundstage . However as I look down I feel the vocal is now shifted dead on center of my soundstage.

Hearing this is something new and confusing to me scratch . Comments?
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:35 am


Hello TJ

Sonic assumes the drift to the Left occurs in stereo. Where are the vocals when you switch to Mono?

Do you feel there is more of the musical performance going on the Left than the Right?

What do you use for the mains plugs for your equipment and what's the material of distribution box that sits on the rack in the middle? Sonic is asking because I found the UK 13A three-pin plug with the fuse to be poor sounding. Better is the US 3-pin. For the wall mains sockets, I use 15A round pins. Part of the reason for the poor sound of the UK 13A plugs is the plastic shrink wrap which is a damping material. One tweaky audiophile Sonic knows said the sound of these UK 13A plugs was improved by cutting lines into the plastic in a certain pattern which he claims he learnt from a UK reviewer who in turn learnt it from one Peter Belt. I'll stick with the US plugs and the 15A ones. And Sonic uses lightweight distribution boxes -- plastic, only metal is for conduct of electricity, no fuses, no suppression, lightweight.

In the Tune everything sounds like the material it is made of.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:39 am

Hi sonic,

Thanks for the reply, I haven't tried it yet in Mono will do so and report back. Musical performance is happening all over the soundstage but some songs which I am very familiar of is not placed as how it is suppose to be. It's not so 3D hence i feel some "holes" around the soundstage.  

As for the mains plug I am using US plug 15A, the distro block is nordost qb8 it doesn't have a fuse and it is made of aluminium however it's not so light in weight. One thing is that it doesn't have any sort of in-line filtering or active circuitry inside of it.

I was reading about the distribution box that others have actually opened up the plates and left it bare which gave good improvements. I immediately looked at mine there were screws to open it up at the back of it  cheers . Will try it out at a later time and report in.

This Is what got me so excited as there is so much of tuning possibilities which came to my knowing after reading through tuneland. I am truely happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:25 pm

Hi TJ

You are for sure without a doubt, a PZC man Exclamation

The space directly behind your head, is it the wall or the opening?

Part of your holes in the stage is the Nordost qb8. It is a squeezer not an opener. If you have outlets near by try going direct. As you make your stage bigger you will start hearing the Nordost cluster, as well as any other component that is not quite able to open up.  We'll want to keep an eye on that.

Most guys once they start going after the bigger stages start needing to get rid of some of the things that are causing the electromagnetic fields to collapse. Along with that shield effect goes parts of the stage. But there's plenty of time to do A/Bs.

First PZC wall mounts (I see some great spots) and Floorstanders. Maybe something right behind your head like a SAM. A little maybe not much soffit tuning. Now that I see the walls better I see some great like I said PZC placements.

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:09 pm

Finally, what a busy week Laughing

OK the top pic is an idea for PZC Treatment.



Above is a look at mechanical transfer and voicing. Platforms, LTR Blocks, Cable Grounds. And I personally would find a friend to sell the stands to and get some serious variable platforms from us. The floor I moved the rug back, so you could get a better ground.

Everything pictured plus the equipment platforms if you went with them would be adjustable, and I can tell already your into tuning.

Man TJ Tunable Platforms, Grounds, PZC's, Blocks WOW! That's a whole lotta sound.

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:11 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

To answer your question, directly behind my head is an open space communicating to my dining room. On the right side at about less than 1 feet is a wall and left to my head is opening to my staircase.

WOW affraid  Looking at my current settings and position of my new set up with the picture you have edited now that some serious stuff going into my system. Superb Michael thanks i am getting a clear picture now and the way forward.

As i can see i will need 7 Wall mounting PZC's and 3 PZC-FS along with 2 stand for my speaker and footers for my stands/racks. Do i need any of the RT-squares as mentioned previously?

Thanks

Regards

TJ
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:27 am

Here's a view all around and pics of a Tunees place to give you an idea of how most set this up.

so you come in the entrance and see this


you sit down and look straight ahead







behind you and see this







or look to your left while sitting and see this




Here's Herns' place which should give you a good idea of what it will look like installed.








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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:21 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners,

It looks like Michael has been to my house and saw exactly where the pzc's wall mount and fs should be placed Smile . Amazing makes it easy to visualise everything in place. Thanks Michael however i would like to confirm some of the placements :

1) from the front sitting position ("you sit down and look straight ahead") is that 3 PZC-FS just under the TV and if it is so should I be placing it before or after my equipment racks?
2) behind my sitting position ("behind you and see this") is that the SAM or PZC-FS ?

Thanks

Regards

TJ
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:21 am

Hi TJ

By the way I'm hearing things in my head the 3 PZC FS would go between the components and the TV, but it can be flexible as you tune that front pressure zone. Those particular PZC's I believe will need to be a custom height, so you have good visual headroom for the TV. Stock these PZC's will be slightly over 4' with spikes. As you and your wife are in this room maybe you can meassure to see the best height for you and we'll make it work.

I personally like SAM's behind me, but what I put in this placement was a PZC-FS so you can play around with that zone. Floorstanding PZC's are very easy to move around.

Now if you did go SAM I would make it taller and wider. We could even go as high as the ceiling, which would sound incredible, but I don't want you to loose that open feel.

fun isn't it Smile

I do see one other thing that will give you slighty better base response in addition to this setup, and bring out the midrange and smooth it. See at the top of the steps, if that has a landing up there and you put a ceiling controller up after the other products are in, that ceiling controller will act like a port. I don't know how high that is so I didn't draw it, but that is a key tuning area.

Once the other products are in, I'll show you how to find the correct placement up there.

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:58 am

Yes up the staircase there is a landing and regarding ceiling controller do you mean ceiling shutters as pictures shown at Hern's place?

I have emailed Harold regarding pricing awaiting for his reply.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:40 am

Hi fellow tuners,

Did some minor adjustment to my system, moved the speakers 3 inches forward and coupled my amp to the floor with the platform in between (previously it was on the carpet) as what Sonic previously mentioned. Applied a piece of cardboard in front of my TV.

So I sat down and listened by the first note there were improvements that made me smile Smile . Sound became clearer the midrange energy was present although it was not significant but it was more than before. Vocals was centered more but still a slight shift to the left (switching to mono it sounded perfectly centered)

These past few days has taught me to never stop fiddling with your system, always think what is around and surrounding your listening position and make some changes it can be favourable or not but each step you make the more you start to understand and learn what Michael has been saying all this while. Can't wait to mess up my system again Wink .

Thanks

Regards

TJ
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