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 Greetings from malaysia

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:46 pm

Merry Christmas to everyone in Tuneland santa santa
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:02 pm

Merry Christmas santa

Let the Type 3 play for at least a week without touching it (I let it settle a lot longer myself with the first burn), if you can. After that we'll start to voice it for your setup. This of course is going to be a long ride, but at the end you will pretty much be able to set the signal free. Then we'll more than likely want to do the other cords and cables.

The paper thing is very hit and miss, but for me having you and Sonic do this tells me more about your systems, so I appreciate your willingness to try things.

Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:44 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners,

A small update here with the T3's in Smile . I have got a good 8 hours of run in now and the sound is changing slightly it sounds more upfront for sure and there is more space between each instruments. This is great because I have good dimension within my stage. I feel that the stage has grown in depth wise and forward projection towards me. The height and width seems to be the same.

The midrange glare is still there but it has reduced slightly. Bass is still the same as previously and the highs are still rough around the edges not giving that sweet sound that I had previously with my Transparent cables.

Initially the girth of vocals and piano notes increased to a disproportionate size but now it is reducing to a much more appropriate size in comparison with other surrounding instruments played. What I am getting now are more details and a clearer picture of the stage. It is like I know now that the recording is done in a confined space or a studio.

The other thing I noticed is that I can easily define if the guitar strummings are done by fingers or by a pick and I can follow each notes better now. Before the T3's in, yes I could define all that but now it is so much more easier and clearer. Saxophone sounds marvellous with the T3's it sounds so realistic I can hear the breath taken on each notes. At one point I could identify that there was a spit of saliva produced from the breath taken. Here that coarseness of the highs makes the Saxophone sounds real. Not always those smooth highs gives you a better sound.
On certain notes I feel the attack is still not there yet, making the system sounding slightly polite especially when SRV is on his guitar and the same goes for those piano notes.

Well Michael did tell me to leave those cables alone for at least a week, but unfortunately I am groomed not to sit still when listening so I did a slight adjustment on the cables  Embarassed . Why  Question  because the center vocals seems to be skewed to the left . I can only think this could have happened because of those cables since nothing else was changed. To my surprise moving the left cables which is resting on the Michael's cable riser slightly behind made so much of difference as all of a sudden the vocals were raised up by half a feet and sounding slightly ressesed  Shocked . I am bedazzled just by 2cm of movement and the stage went up  Exclamation . So finally I brought it back to the same place as before and moved it in by 1'. I have now somewhat a more centered vocals than before and vocal height is back to it's original place.

MIchael how is this happening as I find that the cables are doing so much more than what I supposedly thought so. Waiting for it to run in while listening to an instrument or vocals that images/positioned and sounds not correct is really hard as the force is not strong with me to sit quietly  Laughing .

All in all I am very happy with the T3's in I will leave my system on and let the cables run in more for another few hours and listen later to review the changes.

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:50 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

A small update here after another 3 hours of running in nothing much has change in tonal wise but the stage from front to back has grown slightly more giving me more dimension and the width has now grown by around 10 cm more over the left and right side off my speaker boundaries. The stage has also gained some height but not too much. This is a nice sounding setup I have now Very Happy and it is just a total of 11 hours of running in.

Now the vocals seems to have skewed again to the left side not sure if the cables moved by itself as the fan in my room is strong enough to swing the cable slightly. However this time when I moved my head forward by 2" everything centered back to a perfect stage that I wanted. Now this can be tricky as sometimes you might perceive that moving forward slightly gives you a better stage but only to realise that the vocals seems nice and the rest of the instruments sounds slightly out of phase, bass is flat and images are blurry over the flank region of the stage. But here everything snapped into place perfectly and the focus on those images improved all around the stage cheers . No loss only gains with this current position.

As of now I am sitting 2" closer to my speakers and the stage is as good as it can get well for now i guess Wink .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:36 pm

Hi Tj Smile

Welcome to another dimension of the tune sunny

Our hobby, as cool as it is, missed or past over some of the important physics parts in their efforts to give fixed presentations of playback. They should have turned right but went left when attempting to get the audio signal under control. I never saw their plan legitimate, not because I wanted to be different. I saw what made instruments and space energy did naturally and found that this is all about "active interaction" within the "continuum" of nature.

The more you tune, the more you will see that the industry is building boxes and then setting (plugging) them into the physics of your space. In other words, your home is your audio system, and all the plug in parts (components) are strangers to your particular realm of physics. "Physics" is a very simple and practical word. Physics is the "knowledge (understanding) of nature". "Nature" is the natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through space and time, along with related concepts such as energy and force.

The key to this whole hobby is getting your system to the place where it wants to play particular recordings "naturally", without stress, strain or forced. What I do, is design the tools that give you adjustments within particular ranges of the energies vibratory network, that function because of "nature" not against "physics". This is why when folks say isolation, I say mechanical interaction. De-coupling doesn't really exist, if it did, you wouldn't have heard a difference sliding something as simple as a piece of paper under your speakers.

here's the thing

The faster we de-program what the high end audiophile has been feeding us, the quicker we can accept how physics is as simple as things that work "naturally".

My cables are designed so you, with the use of your space and my tools, can shape your sound without forcing it to be something it isn't. Your type 3 and cable grounds and natural space are a team, where as your other cables are more of a fixed setting. You can use those fixed settings as guides, but you should be able to do everything the others do and almost any varying flavors you wish to explore. At first it may seem weird to make these tiny moves and adjustments, but it's really no harder than putting a string on a guitar in tune. In fact the toughest part about this hobby for you guys is dealing with the falsehoods and or myths the hobby has fed. I know for my own listening, when I try to make high end audio fit within nature it's a lot tougher than letting nature be natural. The cool part is, you have already got to the place where you are hearing these tiny tunings of physics making changes. The more you allow your system to play with ease, the easier it will be to shape the sound.

BTW, this year I'll be spending time again on Top Tuning so we can pay attention to our upward vibes.

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:51 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners,

Updates on the T3, it has been a total of 16 hours of burn in period and things are changing. First off will be the midrange glare which has completely disappeared from the equation. Even the highs have rolled off to an extent that it sounds dull and not lively. Also due to this the imaging is affected as I am unable to pinpoint the location of instruments clearly it seems blurry. The vocals and instruments seems to have lost their energy and impact. Bass is heard more than before and certain notes that was previously missing can be heard. However bass impact and slam seems to be reduced. The density of each notes has also reduced along with that impact and slam that I was getting. This is causing me to increase the volume from my preamp by 3-4dB which gives me a louder sound but it is not doing anything for that liveliness, impact and slam that I was getting previously. Yet details are still heard and I do not feel that it has reduced scratch .

The stage is increasing in size from every corner height, depth and width giving a very grand presentation of stage in front of me which is nice .

All in all the tonal change has taken a downwards shift and that "PRAT" I was getting previously has reduced greatly. As of now I have a very warm sounding system which is giving a muddy and dull listening session to me. I have not done any changes from my last setting it was more of a switch the system on and let it burn and periodically sit down and listen.

Any comments Michael on my current findings Question I have currently in total of 16 hours of burn in period for the T3's as of now. I will let it run in for another 2 hours and call it a day. Will continue to let the T3"s burn tomorrow and list out my impression.

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:55 pm

Hi Tj

This is the system and Bare Essence starting to get use to each other. Shapes, stage, tone and gain will all vary during the first burn. This will go on till some of the signal developes a path.

What I do during the first burn is play the same recording on repeat so I can hear when the Bare Essence reaches certain levels. The 7 day first burn should get the wire to the place where it can start to be played with.

When it is ready you will be able to start using your Cable Grounds to voice, as well as the terminals and de-torquing the cable.

Keep letting me know, if you can, the changes as they happen so I will know where to take things. I'll probably be able to tell the next move by your desrciption.

You gave me an idea Idea when Andy & Harold get here I will make a pictoral about voicing the cable so you guys can see how to make some of the tuning moves with your Bare Essence and Picasso. That way I can show you the fields in action a little more. Once you get this part figured out your home free.

There are a few ways to setup field loops and flow with cable. Here are 3 basics done on Type 2 to start getting our brains loosened up.



I hardly ever use the top one cause it's extremely length dependent. You may not have noticed but when complicated cables are made they usually only have one perfect length and nothing else sounds quite the same. Companies don't tell you this or maybe don't know, but this is something that should be more transparent in our industry. If you cut off a cable in mid loop you can screw things up. Bare Essence & Picasso are made so you the end user can shape your fields & flow.

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:55 am

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the reply currently I am leaving it on my system, averaging around 4-6 hours per day. It is changing by the day and am using few cd's as my reference to hear the differences that is occurring. Maybe I should just use only one of my favourite cd rather than few so that I won't get confuse myself Wink .

Either way it is definitely getting very interesting and exciting to hear the differences happening which is very drastic and clear as in comparison to my previous Ultra MM2 cables. Which I found and realised that the cable is changing or as you can say maturing in sound only very recently and it was more of a subtle change rather than a drastic one. Guess I missed out on that due to the reason that the whole system was brand spanking new when I hooked up the Transparent. So the whole system was burning in for the first time and I was unable to tell the changes in sound was arising from which part of my system.

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:44 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners,

Another 5 hours of burn in today have given a total of 23 hours of burn in period for the T3 cables. Once again I can hear some difference which seems to be some sort of improvement in comparison to yesterday's listening session.

Firstly one thing I forgot to mention yesterday was the presence and definition of vocals and instruments seems to have reduced significantly over yesterday's listening session. However today's listening session the presence and definition was beginning to "appear" more but not as much as how it was in the first few hours when the T3 was initially hooked up in my system.

Midrange glare is non existence and the highs are beginning to appear with a slight tinge of harshness. Currently it is giving a hint of sense and presence in my stage with those vocals and instruments but still infused with that muddy and dullness sound that I was getting from yesterday's listening session. Bass seems to be full sounding and palpable especially with those bass guitars and drums notes which is very nice. But that guitar strumming and the grit of each string that was strummed is not felt, it sounds polite and dull. I am not getting that "fresh" and "crisp" sound of each strumming of those guitar strings that I was getting previously. The density and palpability of the vocals is still sounding dull but now infused with some harshness of those highs.

This infused mix of sound that I am hearing is giving me a sense of disconnection towards the whole music and the tonal balance is off track. Bass sounds great, mid sounds polite,dull and not full sounding and last but not least the highs are somewhat heard along with some presence of harshness.

The stage has always been super great as it is still increasing in size from all corners of my front wall and upto 2-3 ft forward from the central plane of my speaker coming towards me. I feel that I am in a 180 degree stage Very Happy .

Regards

TJ
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:52 pm

Hi Tj

Great reporting Exclamation Sounds like we have a lot of burn yet to go, probably because it's not constant play. To me it's sounds like the cable is rebooting itself a little every listening session, but that's ok we'll get there, no rush.

If you would, can you give me pictures of the cable pathway from the amp to the speakers, giving me a closeup of the connection on both ends?

What I will want to do is start taking looks at how the cable is laying on the cable grounds, how far apart the grounds are and what the cable is seeing from the out put of the amp and input of the speakers.

Also, about how may hours are on the components? Here's why I ask, It almost sounds like I'm hearing some parts burning in, inside the components. Are the components turned on and off or left on? To me it's sounding like the components are powering down then powering up again.

Next, is this your biggest system soundstage to date, if so by how much? If not, by how much?

harshness

Let's keep an ear on the harshness. This could be tension and blockage related so we will want to look at this. This is way too early to say for sure, but I'm thinking you have some parts in the chain that are too tight that wasn't heard before and now is showing up. When you put the brass footers underneath with the zinc screw touching it how long did it burn before putting in the Type 3?

I don't want to send you on wild goose chases, just want us to be looking at all the potential variables early on so we don't get lost. I want to focus on some specifics as you have mentioned and watch them change through the burn as well when we start tuning. All fun for me Smile hopefully for you as well.

Tj

"This infused mix of sound that I am hearing is giving me a sense of disconnection towards the whole music and the tonal balance is off track. Bass sounds great, mid sounds polite,dull and not full sounding and last but not least the highs are somewhat heard along with some presence of harshness.

The stage has always been super great as it is still increasing in size from all corners of my front wall and upto 2-3 ft forward from the central plane of my speaker coming towards me. I feel that I am in a 180 degree stage ."

mg

This is where I am focused Idea

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:47 am

Hi Michael



Here are the pics for the runway of the T3's in my system.

Mg said

Also, about how many hours are on the components? Here's why I ask, It almost sounds like I'm hearing some parts burning in, inside the components. Are the components turned on and off or left on? To me it's sounding like the components are powering down then powering up again.

Tj

I have a total of 704 hours of run in period for my preamp, 1007 hours for my amp and 600+ hours for my cdp ever since I have got it hooked up. Why is there a discrepancy  Question well it is due to some problems I had with my cdp, ARC installed a thermal protection chip which was cutting off the player and my preamp too had some minor issues which they replaced me with a new unit. The amp was the only lucky survivor without any issues from the very beginning  Rolling Eyes . ARC advocate a total of 600 hours of run in period for their products to start sounding at their best.
Yes my components are turned off when I am not listening to them. When I want to listen I will usually turn it on and let them warm up with some light music for 1 hour before I start listening to music.

Mg said

When you put the brass footers underneath with the zinc screw touching it how long did it burn before putting in the Type 3?

Tj

The screw are made from platinum and the footers are made out of stainless steel, I had them installed 12 days ago and the T3's 1 week after the screw and footers in.

Mg said

Next, is this your biggest system soundstage to date, if so by how much? If not, by how much?

Tj

Yes this is my biggest stage so far until now, the height has gained easily another 5-7", width by 1.5' from the left to right side of my speakers. The depth by 10" which is now closer to my front wall and the forwardness by 1'.
Giving me a total of 2' forward towards me, approx 1' in depth and width left 2.5' past the speaker boundary and 5' past the right speaker boundary and around 5-6' in height. It is nice but on certain recordings the stage closes in as I guess it needs to be tuned to free all those blockage that I have in my system.
As you can see the overall presentation of the stage is broad, averagely holographic and the height is ok but not great.

What is bothering me more is the tonal change that I am getting which is changing day by day and it is hard for me to understand why is this happening so drastically scratch . Is this normal Michael Question  I am all geared up for whatever it takes to get me there. I am learning a lot this past month ever since I changed those platforms, footers and the speaker cables.

I have to admit I am still confused with the T3's effect and how much it is affecting the sound of my system.
I thought the acoustical tuning side was the hardest but this is a whole new world to me as I did not expected it to affect that much  Very Happy .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:27 pm

"I have to admit I am still confused with the T3's effect and how much it is affecting the sound of my system.

I thought the acoustical tuning side was the hardest but this is a whole new world to me as I did not expected it to affect that much."

Hi Tj

Yep, true high end audio is a lot different from what the industry tries to sale. They sale you the components, then leave you holding the bag. No worries though, that's why we're here.

So how long do you leave the system on each time?

Do you go for days with it off?

What your hearing is system shock. Sounds like you didn't hear it as much with the other cable, or didn't notice it as much cause it was being masked.

Your pictures told me a lot, thanks. Let's keep burning things in as much as we can, then we will start playing. I'm absolutely sure your capacitors have not yet stablized. Sometimes capacitors can take forever, especially when being turned on and off in short sessions. Capacitors are passive two-terminal electrical components used to store electrical energy temporarily in an electric field. Everytime they are turned on they go through a reboot. If the capacitors don't charge (store) the energy the same way each time they will sound different from re-boot to re-boot. All parts do this to a degree, but capacitors and inductors are the most tempermental. This is part of why I loosen up everything, so things can harmonize easier. Parts not tied down will harmonize a lot faster than parts that are gripped too tightly. What your Type 3 is trying to tell you is you got some parts that are uptight and not able to go to that next level of harmonizing, which takes a certain amount of mechanical freedom to do. It's like each listening session your system is trying to break through, but then hits a wall of blockage and can't quite get to the other side, letting go of the vibratory neccessities.

Part of the sound change is the typical Essence burn in, but I can hear part is blockage plus the capacitors not ready to give a consistant build up and discharge. It's like this. Picture an oil drum that keeps getting filled than emptied through a hose. What your hearing as different, is the part of the drum that is empty and residue, while the new oil is coming in and the stored oil is going out. Each time your parts are turned on they go through the shock of 4 things, electrical up charge, mechanical vibratory variation, field interchange and audio signal. The more basic the system and parts are the easier it is to charge. The bigger and more complex the parts are, the harder to get stable. 10 years from now you will not recognize the sound of your ARC, they will be such different animals. The more you leave them on, without stops and starts, with music playing, the faster they will mature.

A lot of times you will see me buying older used gear. A big part of that is one I know the gear and two the parts have been burnt in more. Or you will see me use components that use certain types of transformers and caps.

Burning in can be a pain as well as moving things around creating new and different paths while burn in, but it's all part of getting to know what we got and how to use it.

Once last comment for this post then I have to run. Watch out for stainless steel. I'm not sure about platinum as much, but Stainless and some of the other combos can get you into phasy sounds really quick. Stainless steel, aluminum, titanium and some other mixes out of balance can get screwy. And some of the things you are describing are raising my ears.

But as I said let things burn unless you want to take a couple of jumps a little early. I prefer to go slow and sure.

happy new year Tj Cool


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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:56 am

Hi Michael

First all a very Happy New Year to Michael and my fellow tuners Very Happy

Mg said

So how long do you leave the system on each time?

When I start listening I leave it on for around 4-6 hours on each listening sessions, which means 1 hour of warm up session and then only will I start to listen but only after 3 hours in then will I do some critical listening and start to scrutinise the system. I understand that it is not the best of practise but problem here is that with all the tubes glowing it gets pretty hot around the living space. Wife is uncomfortable with the heat and leaving the aircon on 24/7 is not practical cost wise  Laughing .

Do you go for days with it off?


My listening days varies in a week due to my work but it is usually 3-4 days in a week, so yes there will be a day or two when the system is totally not switched on.

Previously when my system was still new I used to leave it on with music on repeat mode for 10-12 hours straight. That is where I used to leave the AC on and the electricity cost soared up significantly Rolling Eyes . However during that period I used to do small pit stops and listen to some music. Here is where I could pick up the system was maturing in a slow and steady manner. Highs were getting sweeter and airier, midrange was sounding fuller than before and bass was growing some muscles Laughing  But these changes was happening at a slow and steady pace which I am accustomed to.

The T3's took it to another level which I am not accustomed to as it is changing by the day drastically Shocked . This is why I am puzzled with it not only that but moving the cables changes the stage appearance and tonal significantly. During the time when the Transparent cables were hooked up, moving them does cause some changes too but it is not so drastic and significant as the T3's.

As of now the T3's are doing so much that it makes the Transparent sound as I would put it as "limited". Recently had a few of my audio buddies at my place for our usual gathering and some listening session to my system, only difference this time with the T3's in. Now these are guys who have been in the "audiophile community" and owning various kinds of system for well over 20 years. Some of them are crazy with those tweaks and some of them naturally are more towards how balance is the system kind of approach. Here is the conclusion none of them expected the system to sound so much more with the T3's in. The presence, stage and PRAT was so much more with the T3's in Very Happy .

It is more than I could have expected and am really excited with the T3's in. Can't wait for the journey to mature more and see where it takes me to.

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:58 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners,

Another 5 hours of burn in today have given a total of 28 hours of burn in period for the T3 cables. And once again I am in a very very happy zone right now the cables are burning in nicely to the extent that the harshness of those highs are beginning to reduce it is still there but lesser. The midrange is getting fuller giving an overall better and clearer imaging to my stage. Bass seems to be the same as previously reported. I have better tonal balance now, well not so balance yet but better than before.

The presence is back and that "I can see the instrument is there" is also noticeable painting a nice stage. That tubey sound of my equipments is giving a very nice warm and cosy feel to the overall presentation of my stage. I can live with this but not for long as I am not in the stage with the singers Wink  I am currently sitting in 1st to 2nd row listening to Norah Jones and Jennifer Warner singing to glory.

The stage size seems to be the same as previously noted, this time there is no increase of stage size. The size of vocals and instruments ratio in relation to my stage is appropriate except on certain piano and drum notes where they can dominate half of the stage Rolling Eyes . Separation and space between instruments and vocals is also better now.

As of now what I feel lacking is that sweet and fine airy highs also a focussed and fuller midrange. Bass around the 50-80hz is not felt much but that is also contributed due to the opening spaces of my living room.

I have inhibited myself since 3 days ago from doing any sorts of changes to my system. As of now the force is still strong within me Laughing Will let the cables settle in as seen in the last pics shown from my previous post. Will await for further instructions from Michael regarding the T3's  Cool .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:38 pm

You have been well trained my young apprentice. The force is indeed strong.

It's fun to hear parts and pieces do their thing Exclamation I've been breaking in my new Audolici amp, and when I hear something, run into the room to see what's going on. I sit there thinking of changes I want to make and then hit my brains pause button so I don't jump ahead of myself. Smile

Because of doing so many systems I have learnt to enjoy the ride, making notes of what I will do when the system reaches that point. One of the things I enjoy so much about the Picasso & Bare Essence is that they have a way of pointing to tunes to make, not only with them but also in other areas of the system.

Yep, let's go a little longer then we will make some subtle moves.

Smile study

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:04 am

Hi Michael,

Looking at how good the T3's are in my system and in future most probably I will be going with the full loom of picasso's. But one thing that has been running in my mind is that my system is a true balanced setup, and the amp ARC ref 150 only accepts xlr. So I am wondering I have not seen Michael going around with Xlr's but only Rca's. Was wondering would that be possible for the Picasso IC's to be in a balanced mode Question

From the product page I was trying to look up and I read this :

" There are no barrels on the ends of MGA cables to cause shield distortion or heavy ends to distort the signal when it contacts the next conduit in the audio chain."

Got me wondering about it scratch. Could Michael elaborate more on it Question

Another thing is that I have kept my PZC's screws loosen for the past 5 months and when I knock around the edges to the central region of where the tuning bolt there are still some discrepancies of sound and tone. So my Question to Michael should I tighten certain areas to keep the tone same or should i just leave it loosen as it is now Question

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:25 am

HI Michael and fellow tuners,

It has been a total of 35 hours of burn in for the T3's as of today and I guess it is stabilising where the improvements can be heard at a steady pace. Guess previously it was more of a system shock when the T3's were introduced Wink for the first time. Overall the highs are getting more rounder and sweeter but with a tinge of harshness. Midrange has not changed since yesterdays session no glare but it is still not full sounding. Bass is getting slightly more and tuneful.

What I am truly impress are the details heard now and the ability to make out the recordings better. This is something that was present before but not so great and this made my attention to be always drawn towards other aspect of the music. However now there are so much more information I am hearing that is making me hear the same recording again and again. Another aspect that grabbed my attention which was not there previously was the ability for the music to come forward towards me. I am hearing guitar notes flying towards me consistently, bass notes felt behind me and occasionally vocals heard so near and around me Shocked.

I did achieved these flying around music notes previously when I was working on my acoustical vibes in my listening space. But there was always some drawback negatives and some trade offs that I had to compromise. I call this the "yin yang" effect Laughing. This didn't do well as I would be sacrificing tonal balance or bass notes and stage layout or presence. But now with the T3's in, it is all there and it is getting better by the day which I am truly happy.

This is exactly what I have been trying to achieve all this while. I know I have just scratched the surface as in comparison to other tunees but wow am I so excited about it bounce . I can listen to more cd's now, what sounded previously congested and distant now it is wide, forward stage and holographic.

One thing I have to look at is to get a dedicated line for my system which I was thinking off few months ago. As I noticed that at certain days it just sound pretty dull and the imaging is diffused like everything sounds sluggish Rolling Eyes . Well will save that at a later stage of my progression into the tunes or maybe sooner Wink .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:59 pm

" There are no barrels on the ends of MGA cables to cause shield distortion or heavy ends to distort the signal when it contacts the next conduit in the audio chain."

Got me wondering about it . Could Michael elaborate more on it:?:

mg

Barrels are made for two reasons. One to cover the soldering and two to have something to grip.  When recording I never used barrels on my mic or patch cables.

got to take a rest, then will be back up to get into it more Sleep

but..........

What I am truly impress are the details heard now and the ability to make out the recordings better. This is something that was present before but not so great and this made my attention to be always drawn towards other aspect of the music. However now there are so much more information I am hearing that is making me hear the same recording again and again. Another aspect that grabbed my attention which was not there previously was the ability for the music to come forward towards me. I am hearing guitar notes flying towards me consistently, bass notes felt behind me and occasionally vocals heard so near and around me .

I did achieved these flying around music notes previously when I was working on my acoustical vibes in my listening space. But there was always some drawback negatives and some trade offs that I had to compromise. I call this the "yin yang" effect . This didn't do well as I would be sacrificing tonal balance or bass notes and stage layout or presence. But now with the T3's in, it is all there and it is getting better by the day which I am truly happy.

This is exactly what I have been trying to achieve all this while. I know I have just scratched the surface as in comparison to other tunees but wow am I so excited about it . I can listen to more cd's now, what sounded previously congested and distant now it is wide, forward stage and holographic."

............this always makes me excited cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:37 am

Hi Tj

It's pre-show so must have listened to some 40 recordings today Cool

There's a couple of things to look at here. One is matching materials and mass which plays a huge role in the signal passing through conduits. The second is working within the limits or expansion of the fields.

I always think about how to talk about this stuff in a way that makes sense, because there is so much theory B* that floats around especially electronics. I figure the safest way is to try my best to use basic physics that is more universal along with what is, instead of what many audiophiles want to be. This is way Real Space/Real Size is the logical soundstage, for example.

Saying this, I start from the point of what is and move backward to how close I can get, as opposed to the typical of starting small and trying to go full size. It's a lot easier to start huge and tune in than go small and try to push the boundaries out. I've always freaked out a little looking through the glass at the live recording space, knowing the mic paterns and listening to engineers making judgements listening to a portion of the actual recording. I'm equally freaked out watching many audiophiles not understanding the recording they are listening to. For example we started talking a little on Sonics thread about layering, as he made a statement that turned my world up-side-down, not really but it was very odd to me and I wanted to grab him and go to the studio together so I could so him what layering is first hand. If we as audiophiles actually spent time doing recordings many of these assumptions wouldn't happen.

Here's a simple one. Lets recorded a Guitar and vocal. With the singer in most cases the mouth is close to the mic element covering the whole space of the surface. This is why lead vocals sound so big. An audiophile trying to make that voice small or the real size of the mouth is not going to happen with 99% of the vocal mics out there. So in reality saying the vocal is real size is actually the shrinkage of the actual size through playback. There are tons and tons of recording tricks to use in recordings and they vary as much or even more than the music itself.

Now so I have the vocal in place. When I record the guitar I use a different mic backing away enough to get the body and strings but also being careful not to over load the tone balance, guitar dependent. One effect is to use one mic, but it's not unusual to setup different patterns. I play around alot when miking, but I usually end up some where around where the body meets the fret or just inside of that on a slant and use my second mic back to give the tone size and distance. Between the two or 3 I can adjust using the room space as my phase and layering distance. So basically I can out there on the live floor move the guitar as far behind the vocal as I want. Same trick with the other instruments only with different patterns.

I'm kinda answering Sonic here at the same time I guess, but what I started to point out is, it was in this setting that I learned how I could do some pretty amazing things by getting rid of the barrels and replacing my connectors so that it wasn't small cables meeting big input connectors. It really doesn't take much of a connection to pass signal, in fact I found that going minimalistic gave me better dynamics and gain. This is when, maybe 1975 or so, I started playing with removing anything that over shielded the signal. In a studio there are so many wires that many engineers over shielded because they were lazy, and after a while I think engineers did it so long they didn't know there was any other way.

I'm not sure why and how the recording and playback world got so disconnected but I have a feeling part of this came from a lack of artistry due to engineers pushing "technical theory" instead of practical application. It was very strange to watch happen to be honest and I'm still not sure why engineers still try to push without actually doing. But I'm one that always believed in doing.

ok moving on

Anything (well most things) hollowed that is a tubed shape is an inductor. Anything solid round bar shaped is a conductor. Cable barrels are inductors. When the mass of the connector (jack plug) has an inductor attached to it, the inductance gets fed into the passing signal and cancels part of the natural field that is working with the cable. Likewise barrels that are dampened corrupt the cables signal before it passes to the connector. Seems pretty basic right, but look at all these massive connectors, cable and inputs. The electric nore the IC's need this mass to pass the signal. It's become a very weird technology. Here you have power cords that need 18 gauge Max, with little mass running into these huge plugs, way over dampened, then back to small cable with some signal passing traces or cable being as small as 32 gauge. This doesn't make any sense. I've been replacing these bigger parts with smaller (closer to the same) parts gaining sometimes double the efficiency.

A strange little world some have created, that doesn't need to be nearly as complicated, and what's so weird to me is, with the rest of the world becoming more efficient with less, you would think high end audio would take the hint and run. But high end audio so many times goes in reverse of innovation. It's like stuck in a time warp.

For myself, I want to use the energy my room and environment is producing to the good and that means finding how to first, set it free, then tune it in. What an amazing hobby, when we get past the plug & play. The music is just waiting to come to life for us. You've come a long way my friend Exclamation

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:54 am

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your replies, I totally get what you mean by the gauge size of power cord and when barrels meets the connector end. It is something that makes total sense to me especially when I relate it to those Rca caps that is applied over those unused Rca plugs of your equipments to get quiet background and other positives from it. I have used those caps during my car audio days and not even once did I liked it. It just robbed the liveliness and closed in my stage which made things sound very clinical or should I say analytical.

Using less components and connections is always better than playing what is know as a "complex system". I am talking based on my car audio history which was all about tri amping to quad amping and massive amounts of cables running all around my car with Vcap, mundorf and bybee capacitors for each amp  Rolling Eyes  .

As I grew out of those complex setups and all those IASCA and MACE rules to obtain a good system. I ended up with a simple setup a 2 way(twets and Midbass) with 12" sub running from 1 amp and 1 monoblock for the subs. The cablings was reduced by 60% and the car was lighter Laughing . I ended up with a very musical, dynamic system and a beautiful stage. Less is better  Exclamation . Along with my own "wild" thoughts of acoustical tuning in my car gave me loads of music more than ever.

Mg said :

"Here's a simple one. Let's recorded a Guitar and vocal. With the singer in most cases the mouth is close to the mic element covering the whole space of the surface. This is why lead vocals sound so big. An audiophile trying to make that voice small or the real size of the mouth is not going to happen with 99% of the vocal mics out there. So in reality saying the vocal is real size is actually the shrinkage of the actual size through playback. There are tons and tons of recording tricks to use in recordings and they vary as much or even more than the music itself."

This piqued my interest in my car and home system I listen to lots of the recordings, mostly the vocals sounds bigger than other parts of the stage which gives the perception that the vocal/singer is standing in front of the band hence giving a sense of depth and layering in relation to the guitar, drums, piano and other instruments played. In contrast on certain recordings I have where the vocals seems to be small a perception of being behind and the guitars or other instruments are in front of them.

Now I have gone behind the scenes on these recordings to understand how it is done about 8 years ago. Recordings from chesky, Norah Jones and Patricia Barber got me thinking a lot. Norah Jones sounds like she is in a very small confined space something like a booth but the band seems to be in larger room/recording studio. Patricia Barber (cafe blue) sounds so distant like she is singing 10ft away from the mic yet the band seems to be clearly forward. All these thoughts did not make sense to me on how do they do their recordings. But after a lengthy search on these recordings I get the picture that it has got to do either recording with different placements of mics in the room or around the instruments or individually recording those instruments and mixing them at a later stage. Cd's like Marantz High-End Audiophile Test Demo and TAG Mclaren Test Track gives a very good insight on how the songs played were recorded.

It does take lots of understanding, experience and discussions behind the scene to know how, what and why are the recordings sounding so different from one record to another. What excites me most is when there is an explanation on how the songs or stage should be and referencing that with my car/home audio setup to hear if I can reproduce that in my system  Very Happy .

Question to Michael on Picasso's

I am really happy with the T3's in my system but am not sure on how to go about with the other parts of my cablings as the ARC's are truly a balanced system my amp only accepts xlr's . Yes the cdp and preamp does take in unbalanced Rca's but the amp only takes in xlr's. Maybe Michael could chime in on this  Question How are the Picasso's able to be used in my balanced setup Question

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:38 pm

Tj said

"I am really happy with the T3's in my system but am not sure on how to go about with the other parts of my cablings as the ARC's are truly a balanced system my amp only accepts xlr's . Yes the cdp and preamp does take in unbalanced Rca's but the amp only takes in xlr's. Maybe Michael could chime in on this:?:   How are the Picasso's able to be used in my balanced setup Question

mg

Hi Tj, I have done all different types of cable ends with our cable in different configurations. It's a matter of finding the ends we want to use. Harold as well does balanced, as some of his clients do, so when he gets through the CES lets make some. I know about a month ago he had me pick out balance plugs, so what we can do is back track and find the combos I chose for him.

I'm sure there are a lot of folks that have been wanting me to get back into a fuller line of cable so now is a good time to explore expanding the line to include more uses again.

also, just as a note

We have our component friends here where we are able to pickup many different electronics to play with. This gives me a chance to do real time testing on specific types of products, so when we get a request we can go get similar designs to explore, making it possible to go further than generic designing.

Can you give me some lengths, so when we make up these cables, if you decide to get them you will have the lengths all ready to go. Keep in mind Harold is here for 2 months so now is a good time to get cable from us.

Sounds like the Type 3 is starting to settle into your system. Just wait till you get the full setup, you'll be in WOW's-Vile Very Happy And then the real fun starts cause you'll be able to do your own custom voicing. That's when things start to get really cool Cool

You know I talk a lot about tuning per recording, but I think sometimes most people forget, that is more of an extreme exploration. I have to do it because I'm required to go where the engineers did in the beginning and have been used to reference many recordings for different companies. However there are times when I do a one setting type of listening while using many recordings in the same setting. There are tricks to "group recording" listening that make it easier to play many recordings in a row, but first I think it takes learning the tuning cues, which it's fun for me to watch you do.

Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:16 pm

HI Michael

Mg said:

Can you give me some lengths, so when we make up these cables, if you decide to get them you will have the lengths all ready to go. Keep in mind Harold is here for 2 months so now is a good time to get cable from us.

Yeah I am looking at around 6 ft in length which should be just nice for me to spread the equipments and give good space for the cables to be placed and tuned accordingly.

Another 4 hours in with a total of 39 hours and the cables are burning in steadily. No difference heard as to previous post but boy am I enjoying my listening sessions Cool . Wish I could stay up longer and listen all day long Very Happy . I am truly impressed with the dimensionality I have gained.

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:11 am

Hi Tj

I know exactly what you mean Smile

It's CES week and I should be dog tired, but I'm as excited as a kid banging on his first drum kit Cool . When you first hear that stereo set free and opened up, it's like the hobby starts all over again and recording lists we once thought were completed, spliting the good from bad, is shattered with our new hobby of soundstaging and musical correctness.

what a hobby Exclamation

what a hobby Exclamation Exclamation

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:00 pm

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

Another 9 hours of burn in making it a grand total of 48 hours and I can hear a difference where the midrange is gaining some weight. Which giving a much needed fuller midrange but at the same time it still feels slightly lean. Details are still retained well which is good. The stage seems to be static and not growing. Bass is very tuneful but not impactful, the double bass is easily heard. Highs still have that slight harshness but on certain recordings it is nice to have that edge as it makes that presence more realistic.

As I am listening I feel very intimate and immediate with all the instruments and vocal. Breath, pluckings of guitars with fingers/pick, piano notes all can be heard crystal clear Exclamation . Stage presence can be heard and felt vividly.

But with that fuller yet "leanish" midrange I am starting to get some peaks over the midrange frequencies of vocals. At certain notes it sounds like a "hmm" sound. A dissonance of certain notes where that particular midrange frequency is bumped up. My guess is around the 500-800 hz range scratch .

Overall it still sounds great and I am sleepy Laughing  but am going to give myself another hour of late night music.

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:23 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

Another 5 hours in, making a total of 53 hours burn in for the cables and I am mighty impressed with the improvements so far. The highs have sweetened up slightly and the midrange have gained more body. Bass have gained some tightness and fullness The texture has increased more. It is pretty much balanced from top to bottom.

I feel that the stage is stagnant not increasing in size nor decreasing. Michael when will it be time to start tuning the T3's Question The force within me is getting weaker by the day Laughing

Anyway a friend of mine came over the other day for some beers and music. As usual after a few beers everything sounded great Laughing . However this time he was raving about QRT from Nordost which he recently purchased. He brought it along to my place 1 unit of QX4 and 2 QV2's. So off we went installing it in my setup. As you know I have the QRT distro box known as QB8 which I found was a very nice addition to my setup but never looked more than that.

We listened to the QX4 and QV2's with and without it for 2 hours in my setup. Now you can google on it and it seems to rave about the improvements gained toward the whole stage right up to the tone of each notes. It seems mighty impressive if you read on it. After 2 hours of listening with and without it, my final conclusion is I am glad that it was out of my setup  cheers  . It shut down the whole stage and that holographic sound I was getting seems to have disappeared. Not only it shrunk my stage but it also made everything sounding fake, too clean and distant. Those inner details that gives you a nice understanding of the room layout and types of instruments used faded away into darkness.

Yes the imaging seems to have improved and it sounds quiet between each notes and it gave some good weight to each notes but it just sounded awfully fake. Yet to him the sound was still acceptable with them in my setup rather than without it scratch . Well one man's "meat" is another man's poison Wink .

After fiddling with it countlessly as I was surprise why is it sounding bad in my setup when he said it sounded so much more better in his setup (he has a reasonable setup that sounds ok to my ears). The reviews from other forums shows that it is really a game changer  Shocked although there are some people who were skeptic about it.

I finally managed to get something that I would say "not bad" in my setup and that is by using only one of the QV2 hooked up into my QB8. Nothing more than that, every time I introduce the other QV2 is sounded bad and the QX4 just made things sounding awful. Even using the QX4 alone without the QV2's was bad enough.

From the Nordost website it says that one would find significant improvements in comparison to other non QRT setups. My understanding is that those who will benefit the most will be people who do not have a dedicated AC line and no "treatments done over their AC wall sockets. Also with dirty lines polluted with microwave, wifi, refrigerators, computers and all the blah blah blah stuffs.

Now I fall perfectly in this category of no dedicated line no grounding treatments for my equipments and my TV, decoder and fan is hooked up with the same line of my system ( sometimes i get lazy to unplug the the TV socket when I am listening to my setup Embarassed ). My wife will be in the room with the AC on and I will be listening to my music sometimes the washer is on too Rolling Eyes . Yet with all these happening within my dwellings I am still listening to some beautiful music in my living room. Knowing this I thought the QRT would do some justice to my polluted line but what a disappointment it was.

Well it was a good experience as it has reinforced my belief that the force of Tunes is stronger than anything else thrown at it.

Hopefully Michael could chime in on this Smile .

Regards

TJ
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