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 Greetings from malaysia

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:39 am


Hi tjbhuler

Those T3s from Mr Green are great aren't they? Sonic biwires T3 for the bass/mids panel and T2 for the quasi-ribbon tweeter.

The tuning Sonic did is to untwist the cable a half-turn every 6 inches down the entire length of the T3s and T2s. Of course the cables should freed at both ends before the untwisting down the length and then the ends twisted gently back again before connecting back up to the amp and loudspeaker terminals.

Keep them lifted off the floor with RoomTune Cable Grounds. A few days of settling and you'll hear things!

Sonic
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:21 am

Hi Sonic,

Always great having you here Very Happy , great advice there and will do so with the T3's.

BTW if i'm not mistaken you used to run your speaker cables using the T2's previously before the T3's came. If it so how do you compare T2's with the T3's before you went in to your current bi wire configuration with your speakers Question .

Bi wiring the same way as yours has been running in my mind as my second trial but will await for Michael's further instructions and understanding on getting the T3's tuned in first.

I am looking into applying the full loom of Michael's picasso's for my balanced setup and power cables too Very Happy .

Regards

Tj
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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:04 am


Hi tjbhuler

It appears that there is a principle of the Tune that Sonic has learnt which is as our systems and room get more tuned, variable and free, we can migrate from T3 to T2 and to T1 – that is towards fewer conductors in our cables. The mistake that Sonic made was to think my system was more advanced in the Tune continuum than it actually was so with this impression I went from T3 to T2 and then split the T2 into one cable carrying the + and the other – of the signal to the loudspeaker. This resulted in blockage big time in my system given it is non-tunable. Sonic tuned against this for a long time to no avail till I bought T3 from Michael with T2 in 2015. The use of T3 brought back the girth and frequency extension up and down from my Magneplanar MG1.5QRs and then biwiring with T2 freed up the sound even more from the upper mids into the treble. What a restored freedom to the sound!

Sonic would opine that you will do very well with T3 given your equipment. If you biwire, T2 may work for the treble but then it might not. But I won’t go any less than T2 if I had your gear. Also instead of biwiring, Sonic tried T3, T2 and T1 jumpers between the speaker terminals and all sounded different. Eventually I biwired. Picassos along with Mr Green’s T3/T2 loudspeakers cable will see off any other cables on the market today. Sonic could not recommend them more. And I am using T1 and T2 as mains feed cables too.

Sonic

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:28 am

Hi Sonic

Thanks for the reply, am very happy with the T3's and can't imagine what would the picasso's do to my system Laughing .

In time to come I will also try bi wiring configuration but for now will focus on the T3's and look into what you have mentioned previously regarding untwisting the T3's.

Regards

Tj
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:20 am

Hi MIchael and fellow tuners

I have been giving a good 4 hours of run in today making it in total 57 hours and the cables are giving good vibes. The highs have been tamed and it is very nice and sweet sounding with a slight "edge/bite" to every note. This edge gives a sense of realness especially with vocals, piano and trumpets. Midrange seems full yet tight giving an overall beautiful midrange bloom. Bass is slightly more and very tuneful.

The details is so much present especially those inner details which is getting more Shocked . Stage wise is the same it is 20' wide, 6-7' height, 4-5' deep and 2-3' forward. I can now see the stage well and appreciate the layout in most of my recordings played.

The T3's has surpassed my previous cable in almost every aspect and it has been 21 days since I introduced the T3's. How much more can it get better Question I dunno but I am enjoying this journey very much. Looking at the slight changes the T3's are showing now in comparison to the first 1 week in it might be time for me to start untwisting the cables as suggested by Sonic or should I start to move the cables around Question . What say you Michael Question

Regards

Tj

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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:07 pm

Hi Tj

I'm hoping to be somewhat back on schedule in about 3 days. Lets visit the voicing then. I want to get a good sense for where your system is. There's a few ways to do the voicing, which you might want to look at.

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:24 pm

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

After 65 hours in and I think the T3's have been reasonably burnt in as it is stable with the sound. Currently the highs I would put it as partially sweet and rounded off with a slightly edge and a tinge of harshness. Midrange is full, clear and there is a nice bloom but on certain recordings it can sound slightly lean too. Bass initially was loose but over the period it has tighten up, gained some meat and sounds very tuneful.

All in all with all of these characters shown it has transformed my system significantly as the stage has gained dimension, width, height and depth. I can appreciate more cd recordings now and I am able to hear more inner details giving me a better perspective and paint a better picture on the layout of the recording done in the studio. With the T3's in there is more presence in my listening space which can be very spooky at times Shocked .

How to voice the T3's well that is something I am awaiting from Michael to guide me. Meanwhile I managed to obtain some rosewood footer base plates which is suitable for heavy equipments and speakers. I will try it under my speakers and report in the findings.

Regards

Tj

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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:03 am

Hi Tj

168hrs of constant play is the starting point, but if your ready we can begin.

Based on your description the first thing I would do is do the slightest of de-torque. Take out the Essence and start at one end and barely bend the cable side to side, just barely. Try to do this at every spin of the cable. Once you get to the end. Plug back in the cable and play for 2hrs. Take the cable back out and barely twist the cable opposite of the spin. Be sure to not change direction of the cables when hooking back up. Because this is Type 3 try your best to make every de-twist the same. Once you start de-twisting do the whole cable, don't stop till done.

The tighter the Type 3, the closer the harmonics will be. The looser the Type 3 the wider the harmonics.

Now try to space Cable Grounds as close to the same distance apart as you can. You can do this by counting the spins. There's a lot to do when voicing the cable and it's important you understand what is going on.

hope this helps


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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:01 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners,

I have done as what Michael has instructed to do. Bend the T3's slightly and let it run in for 2 hours and after that slightly untwist the cables anticlockwise to loosen the cables twist.



As you can see a comparison of the cable untwist and twisted from left to right. Well It is not easy getting them to untwist uniformly Laughing  but I managed to get them as homogeneous as possible with the twist. Total hours was approximately 1 hour for this untwisting procedure Smile .

It has began a new chapter for the T3's clocking in a period of 70 hours in total and 3 hours of the T3's untwist. So far the sound seems to be much more smoother and have gained slightly more width. Height seems to be the same but the forward projection seems to be slightly ressesed. The presence seems to have reduced too but the overall presentation of the stage layout is still there.

The main thing here I noticed is the highs is now sounding much more smoother. Details are heard but it seems to be less emphasised as in comparison to before untwisting them. Midrange is also sounding slightly lesser but smoother. Bass is also sounding slightly lesser. It seems like there is a veil covering the whole frequency spectrum scratch . The background seems much more quieter. Giving a better space between each instruments played.

Overall I have mix feelings with the initial run in of the T3's after untwisting them. The presence is lesser and the overall sound is slightly "polite" less attack and dynamic. The highs sounds smoother with more air but slightly less prominent in the details section. Midrange volume sounds lesser however the whole midrange spectrum is still there. Bass sounds slightly lesser too but tuneful. The saturation of each note seems lesser too as I said it really feels like there is a veil covering the whole audio spectrum but not causing it to sound dull only less energetic and impactful.

I will have to start repositioning the T3's with equally spaced cable risers which I have not done yet as I want to get a direct comparison with the same placement of my cables previously seen. Hopefully in the next few days it will start to grow and sound more saturated and dense giving a better sense of presence and energy.

Meanwhile here are some of the cd's that I have been listening to lately Very Happy



Previously they were not sounding that great with my initial setup and cables but ever since the appearance of MG's tools Laughing  and now the T3's in, it has transformed my system making these cd's to sound much more involving and listenable at its best.

Regards

Tj
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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:55 am


Hi tjbhuler

That's a lot of work and aching fingers from all that twisting of your T3s down their length!

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:20 am

Hi Tj

I looked up your weather and am guessing it will be about 4 days until you hear the Type 3 start to settle in again. However keep track of this so we can start to document the settle times there.

Your giving great descriptions Exclamation

Wild Stuff isn't it Smile If high end audio ever knew Idea

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:32 am

Sonic said

"That's a lot of work and aching fingers from all that twisting of your T3s down their length!"

mg

You should try a few hundred feet at a time Smile When I'm done I don't want to touch anything for a couple of days affraid

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:41 am

Hi Michael and Sonic,

Yup Sonic you are absolutely correct, in fact I have some blisters formed at the tip of my thumb and index finger Laughing . Well as they say no pain no gain.

Mg said :

I looked up your weather and am guessing it will be about 4 days until you hear the Type 3 start to settle in again. However keep track of this so we can start to document the settle times there.

Will do so this is so much more interesting than anything else that I could ever think off in this hobby  Exclamation . I was so tempted to get up and start mobilising those pzc's around to regain back that forward projection. But something told me to step back and let it settle in as there is more to come just be patience. The force is still strong in me  Laughing .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:56 am

I believe this is the wise approach Tj. Everytime I have ever put the quick fix ahead of the settle then tune method, I have found the quick fix only leads to taking the even longer way around. I know we live in a world of instant sound, but nature has a different (more meaningful) time schedule. That richness we all crave is found within sound disciplines of engineering combined with physics. Engineering is our thinking of doing, physics is nature putting in the propper balance of our doing. An uptight system setting usually is followed by an uptight listener. A system based on calm is usually followed by our best times in this hobby. Wink

There's no schedule for pleasure, only moments of the perfect now Smile

keep those reports coming study Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:22 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners,

Another 5 hours in and a total of 8 hours for the T3's being untwist with a grand total of 75 hours burn in for the T3's. The sound seems to be regressing slightly in comparison to what I have reported in yesterday which is sounding slightly more veiled up.

The highs are sounding slightly muted than before and am losing the edge, definition and borders of each note also I feel now the inner details is also affected. The dimension of my stage as noted previously has reduced which is predominantly the forward projection of my center stage. The midrange sounds slightly dull, like it has been sucked into the stage rather than projecting outwards towards me. The lower end of the notes also seems to be thinned out. Also the bass even though it sounds tuneful but it seems to lack some energy for that extra "oomph".

The overall sounds seems to be less lively and dimensional. It is funny as at times some songs I feel there are more air in the highs but yet at other times it just sounds like a very old tubey analogue system. Stage presentation is still there but the imaging is now slightly affected and blurry in comparison to yesterday's review which I felt that there was more space between each instruments and defined.

Will continue to burn in the cables and follow up with my report as this is getting exciting and very interesting because as of now the T3 is behaving like a completely different cable than before.

Regards

TJ
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:41 pm

Isn't it remarkable to hear the signal passing through the system Very Happy

Idea It helps us to understand what the audio signal actually is and how much control we have in shaping the audio code to our unique image of stage. The recording is all there and we are the masters of setting it free and at the same time being somewhat of an end user engineer.

I'm liking your approach Tj Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:21 am

HI Michael and fellow tuners

As of now i have a total of 18 hours for the T3's being untwist with a grand total of 85 hours burn in for the T3's. The sound is getting more hollow and airier, overall it definitely sounds less dense hence giving a lesser vivid imaging.

This is a sound that I am not so familiar as it sounds and images like it is there but yet not impactful. At times it feels dull yet at times it sounds lively scratch . Well I guess it sounds like it is still burning in and adapting to the system and the whole vibes. Am I correct Michael Question

Initially before untwisting the T3's it sounded slightly lean and thinner but as things got burning in more the weight started to kick in and it gave a very very nice stage size, imaging and tonal balance. The texture and that palpable forward presence of each instruments and vocals was very enticing and appreciated giving me loads of goose bumps. The inner details was ever so present giving me more depth of understanding of the recordings then before. My system sounded really good and I could listen to more recordings easily.

After untwisting the T3's all of greatness from the T3's has decreased Sad . It sounded initially dark and dull with the highs sounding muted. However there was a sense of "inner peace" from each recording that I was getting. I felt that the background was sounding more calm and cleaner. But after a while it sounded like a veil was applied over the whole stage. Giving a sense of dullness and that so call "inner peace" is interpreted as not sounding as lively as before untwisting them. That vividness and presence is lesser and the attack was also affected. I am feeling less engaged to the music but more curious of the recordings that I am hearing and also searching for that presence more. The stage width and height is still the same but the forwardness and dimension are affected.

Now after running it in more as of today the imaging is getting more hollow and airier Shocked . At times yes that dullness kicks in but as of now most of the time it is sounding hollow. This reminds me of that movie fantastic 4 the female who possesses the power of disappearing or the Hollow Man movie Laughing . As they start to fade away the process of seeing them slowly disappearing is what I am listening to now. Where the imaging is getting less dense hence less vivid imaging and presence in my listening space. This description that I am giving is in comparison towards the T3's before untwisting them.

As of now with this current changes that I am hearing I am once again able to listen to most of my cd's and it's recordings. I am still able to appreciate the stage layout and placements of each instruments and singer's but not as good as before. That airy presence as of now is slowly clearing of that veiled or smoggy stage that I was hearing previously and in return it is now revealing that hollowness. It is also sounding less impactful, less lively, less presence and the tonal richness that I was having previously is now getting diluted. The Yin Yang Effect is back  Exclamation

What should I do Michael to yearn back that fullness, richness and dimensional presence that I was getting previously Question Should I chill and let it burn in more or should I start to "voice" it more Question

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:47 pm

Hi Tj

Are all of your Cable Grounds vertical?

Before I would do any twist changes I would start to voice my Cable Grounds and find the best length and paths.

I personally move very slow with changes while things are in burnin mode, and your system as a whole is still going through a lot of burnin.

Now there are also other things to play with. With the sound doing this hollow sound it could also mean that one or two of the PZC's are slightly on the loose side, a transfer somewhere is causing just a hair of blockage or a few other things. I would take some time doing other adjustments to see their ranges. It's good to learn how all the tunes interact with each other. You will be surprised at what you thought was one voicing of the cable turned into another voicing on something else.

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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:11 am

Hi Michael

Yes the cable grounds are all vertical and placed more towards the edge and not centered as I found them best in that position. Maybe I should place them centered Wink . As for the PZC's I have tightened only one of them and that is the center piece of the mec. As for the rest some are still kept loose cause the last I tapped on to them it sounded not even so at certain corners of the PZC's I did tightened them to give an overall equal tone when I tapped on them.

Will recheck again and adjust them individually. Interesting I never looked and thought about the PZC's Smile .

Regards

Tj
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:19 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

Total of 26 hours for the T3's being untwist with a grand total of 93 hours burn in for the T3's.

I rechecked the PZC's today as pointed out by Michael and have tightened some of them. Tightening the screws is a balancing act as I was trying to get an even tone across the board. Also had to readjust some of the center bolt too after tightening the screws it had cause some of them to become loose.

I sat down and played some music and with immidiate effect the sound snapped in and became more focussed Shocked . It sounds clearer and volume seems to have increased by a bit. That hollowness that I was experiencing has reduced, it is beginning to sound more like it is there. Michael you were spot on to point out what should be done next Smile .

Yes the "mojo effect" that I was getting previously has partially returned. There is body to each guitar, piano notes played, vocal density and presence is regaining its status. That attack which was heard previously is starting to appear. Bass sounds tuneful and tight but slightly less densed. Highs sounds partially sweet and not harsh. Midrange has gained that density and fullness.

Once again the yin yang effect has happened  Rolling Eyes . This time it is the stage forward projection,width and height which seems to have shrunken. As of now the width has decreased by 2' from left and right side past my speaker boundary and height has dropped by 1'. That forward projection which was one of the most exciting feature that I look at has reduced by approximately 1-1.5'. It does not sound like a banana stage but more of a 2D-ish/flat stage. Size of vocals and other instruments seems to have shrunken along with the stage hence I am not getting that grand presentation of my stage.

I will give it a few days of settling in period and hope that the stage will start grow back to how it was previously or more  Wink . I will need to look back at my PZC placements and will try to introduce some RTsq in the equation ( I still have another 2 more RTsq not used).

Regards

Tj
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:35 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

It has been 31 hours T3's being untwist with a grand total of 98 hours burn in for the T3's.

With some patience (well not much Laughing ) I have managed to regain back that mojo which was missing previously. The yin yang effect is still there but to a lesser extent now.  



As you can see from the pic above there has been some changes in my acoustical settings. I have used up all of my RTsq as of now. Placing them as seen above has significantly lowered the noise floor hence I have a blacker background and imaging is much more focussed.

With this placement I have cleared of that hazy cloudy stage that I was having previously. Funny before the T3's were untwist it did not have that haziness scratch .  To me thinking back retrospectively that haziness could have been because it sounded fat and slightly loose at the lower end of my midrange with a slight bass boost and along with the effect of lesser highs.

With the current setting as of now I am getting back that forward projection and height back to it's original position. The width has grown but still it is lesser than before. Tonality wise it has shifted up by a notch the highs sounds much sweeter but very slightly harsh and dry. Which is nice for me as guitar, saxophone and trumpets sounds much more realistic and textured. Vocals especially with Norah Jones and Carla Werner sounds so textured and the presence is beginning to give me that goosebumps again. Once again details and presence of inner details is giving me a deeper sense of understanding the recordings being played.
Midrange is more well behaved giving a nice rounded and lushness feel for vocals and piano notes but I feel as of now it seems to have thinnened by a bit. Bass has rounded up nicely and the energy is very much felt making it sounding full at the bottom and tuneful. But that lower notes of the bass meaning 40-50hz and below is very minimal in my current placement but this is because I have many openings in my living area.

The overall feel to music is as how it was previously, I can see more of the images now  Smile . I know I can get back that lower notes of my midrange and the width of my stage. I am looking at the sides and behind of my speakers PZC-fs, the center bolts is finger tight which I feel needs to be loosen by a bit. But I am not going to do so as of now I will let it settle in more before I make my next move.

There are still some lackings here and there but I am on the right track and hopefully I can regain back and get more with the settling time in.

Good tunes ahead Cool .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:54 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

It has been 1 week since I last posted on the T3's as I have been busy and came down with a flu. Anyway I am out of it and back with the tunes Smile .

I have as of now 37 hours T3's untwist and 105 hours for the T3's being run in. Since my last post I tightened up the screws and tuning bolts at the PZC's along with placing some RTsq as seen in my previous post. Gave in a good 5 days of settling in period.

The stage is back as how it was previously cheers . The width, height and depth is as how it was previously good tunes here. The forward presence and projection has also improved but it is slightly lesser but still acceptable. One thing I have gained is the imaging which has improved giving a much better sense of instrument placement in the stage.

Tonality wise it sounds much better the highs are nicely rounded with a small tinge of harshness with good extensions. Midrange seems to be full but with a slight glare. Bass is very tuneful and coherent with the midrange making it more involving to listen. It sounds so much more lively now with great PRAT.

One thing is the background noise which I feel is slightly more than before not sure but I think it is due to better sense and clarity of listening to the setup has brought upon new flaws in my system. All in all i am back to good tunes.

A question to Michael looking from my previous post I am having difficulties trying to place the T3 cables as there is not much of space can you suggest how should I go about it Question One idea came to me is by placing them in between the platform and the black plank of solid wood that my equipments are placed on. There is space in between them by the LTR's .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:31 am

Hi Michael and fellow tuners

Have been busy past couple of days but since yesterday it has been pretty relax here due to the festive season of chinese new year.

Anyway another 8 hours in making it 45 hours T3's untwist and a grand total of 113 hours T3's run in. The sound is back as previously stage is as big and grand as it can be. Tonal wise it sounds much better as it has shifted up by a bit. The highs is sounding airy yet sweet and a slight harshness. Midrange is full with no glare and the bass compliments the lower notes beautifully also it is sounding very tuneful.

The presence is more than before I can literally see the singer and instruments across the stage which frequently gives me goosebumps. Imaging has improved too this is one of those things that I was not so particular about now it seems to have grown into me.

All in all I am very happy with the cables  Very Happy  who knew T3's cables could do so much to my setup. Of course this is only going to get better as I am beginning to slowly tune them by moving them slightly here and there. Well not too much yet as I am happy with what I am hearing currently but the tune in me is telling me it is time to start moving them and place them in a better position using MG's cable grounds.

Soon I will be doing some renovations to my rooms upstairs, due to an unexpected earthquake and following with heavy rain that occurred last year  Rolling Eyes . This has caused the walls and ceiling paints to bubble up and peel. Also the floorings too have been affected the parquet tiles are loose and lifted up making it uneven. This has given me the opportunity to convert one of the rooms to a dedicated room for my audio rig. Measuring along with the contractor is giving me a size of 10' x 15.25' x 8.75' (WxLxH) for my dedicated room. It is not big but it will be suffice enough for my SF speakers to finally sing to it's glory  Smile . I will also be getting a dedicated line done for my equipments that will at least give me a better listening timing. As of now it is hard to find the time to listen partially due to my other half who seems to be glued to the TV. Also at night I find that the current seems to be not so stable.  

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:10 am

HI Michael and fellow tuners,

Been busy here but did manage to get another 7 hours in making it 52 hours untwist and grand total of 120 hours.

Everythings seems to be sounding the same as previously, so my next move will be placing the T3's in a more regular position as oppose to what it is now. I have a total of 6 MG cable grounds so it will be tricky to place and space them apart and have to deal with the space constraints.

The move to go for an all out MG cable loom (power cords and balance cable) is already pondering in my thoughts Smile . So let's see how it goes as I have already contacted Michael and Harold via email.

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings from malaysia   Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:30 am

Hi Tj

I'm looking forward to getting caught up on everyone's systems. These 2 months were great for me, but I felt out of the loop some what with all the things that needed done at TuneLand Vegas.

Now that I'm hopefully back on TuneLand more, I would like to post your new power cable run and each cable inter-connect. Harold ran through the different types and we put together some test runs.


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Greetings from malaysia
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