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 RADSJ's System "new to tuning"

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MGA

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PostSubject: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Sat May 09, 2015 9:06 pm

TuneLand welcomes RADSJ
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Sat May 09, 2015 9:13 pm

We've moved RADSJ to Home Audio Systems from basic setups

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t306-new-to-tuning

"Hi,

I am totally new to tuning my audio room. I included some pictures to give you an idea of how it is. Could you, please, advise what would be the initial set up for me? It is 10.5 X 18.9 X 7.4. The 18.9 is from the front wall up to the stairs which adds 3.3 more. I am considering a possibility of installing a curtain from top (touching ceiling) to floor in order to isolate the stairs that are behind my seat. What do you think?

Thanks!" RADSJ




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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Sat May 09, 2015 9:33 pm

Hi RADSJ

Hold off on the certain for now, would be my advice. Let's think about a basic tuneup. I'm going to do a quick setup for your system for you to look at.



coming right up Cool

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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Sat May 09, 2015 9:43 pm

Take a peek





This will transform your room into a concert hall.

14 RT Squares
5 RT XLT's

That's 2 on the ceiling.

This setup would zone out your theatre sound as well as the two channel listening.

http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t25-roomtune-squares

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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Sun May 10, 2015 10:26 am


Hello RADSJ -- welcome to the Tune!

That set up from Michael will extract great music in your room. The Tune is wonderful, sometime counter intuitive. Like for all the RT Squares and RT XLTs, you'll want the reflective side facing into the room and not against the walls. Having the absorptive side facing into the room can often cause holes to appear in your soundstage and sometimes thin out the bass.

Michael, I been wondering -- you are not suggesting any RT Squares or RT XLTs mounted across any of 90 degree wall corners for this set up. Why is that given that an across-the-corner mounting is very often suggested in Tuning?

Sonic
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PostSubject: No Triangles?!   Sun May 10, 2015 6:31 pm

Hi,

I appreciate the warm welcoming from both of you. I hope I will learn a lot from you guys. Although, I am not sure how much I can contribute.

I was expecting to see triangles on the corners. I think this is the same idea that sonic.beaver is talking about. Why squares instead of triangles?

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Sun May 10, 2015 9:21 pm

Hi Guys

The RoomTune or the RT Squares will work great in this setup.


http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t57-roomtune-acoustical-treatment

I posted the RT Squares because of the two back corners mainly, and for the looks. I liked all the squares in the room.

As far as the coverage, again a general setup, before we got into how flexible the placement is. Sometimes (not always) when there's a TV in the room and I can't get at the center pressure zone, I like the RT Squares as they give me more choices. For me it's a gutt feeling more than anything. Because I do so many of these rooms I try to see myself in the listeners place, and try to picture how much burn I would start with. The two front upper corners would be the question mark for me. Either would be great there cause you can see the loading.

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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Tue May 12, 2015 1:47 am

Hi,

I think I got it. Two questions: where exactly I would place each RT Squares and the RT XLTs? Let me give an example: I see the front corners will have the squares on the front wall touching ceiling and side wall, right? But how above the ground should I place the RT XLT on this same wall? Where am I going to place the ones on the ceiling? And so on.

How much would cost the suggested set up?

Thanks again!
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Tue May 12, 2015 3:21 am

Hi RADSJ

I can do a placement guide for you of each wall (be happy to) or walk you through, which ever is easiest for you. Or once you have the product, I can take you through in close to real time while your listening.

If I draw up the room, I might ask for a couple more pictures and measurements, so I can work around the furnishing, but from what I'm seeing things look pretty straight forward.

Two front corners you got right. The XLT's below them, measure from the bottom of the Square to the floor, and put the XLT in that place.



just let me know what you need, and I'll help you with placement

As far as the order let's get Harold in on the action for your best pricing.

harold@michaelgreenaudio.com

One thing I might mention. You may want to email Harold before he heads on his next trip (leaves 16th).

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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Tue May 12, 2015 11:15 pm

Hi,

I see that your room tunes are smaller than from other people/companies. What is your concept about it? I mean, less wall coverage is better in your opinion/experience? For instance, I saw videos on youtube where people use what is called bass trap from floor to ceiling covering the entire corner. Besides, the material ranges from fiberglass wraped in cloth to foam only or foam with a kind of wood cover with openings. What would be the difference if using those different kind of materials? By the way, what exactly is the material you use? Why did you choose such materials?

I am sorry if too many questions, but I am trying to understand ideas/concepts (I have a degree in philosophy, argh!).

Regards.
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm

Hi RADSJ

Sorry for the late response. Seems like this is one of those weeks that just didn't have enough hours.

Here's a break down of your post.

RADSJ

I see that your room tunes are smaller than from other people/companies.

mg

We do have some rooms that use more, especially if the materials and construction of the room is not able to produce the entire audio range, but most listening rooms don't do so bad 30 or so to 20khz.

RADSJ

What is your concept about it?

mg

RoomTune is the right name for what we do. I've never been one for designing dull sounding rooms, and even though some recording studios have me do this , for effect, most of our clients prefer a more balanced approach to listening. If you look at our product pages you will see a wide range of products, not only acoustical but mechanical and electrical as well. Our concept is to turn your system into a musical instrument.

RADSJ

I mean, less wall coverage is better in your opinion/experience?

mg

It really depends on the room itself. We look at each room and prescribe what approach we feel is the best for that particular client and their room. My background is in live performance, recording, mastering and playback, plus design and build.

RADSJ

For instance, I saw videos on youtube where people use what is called bass trap from floor to ceiling covering the entire corner. Besides, the material ranges from fiberglass wraped in cloth to foam only or foam with a kind of wood cover with openings. What would be the difference if using those different kind of materials?

mg

There are a few schools of acoustics. The original 4 when the treatment age started in homes was Tube Traps (trapping the sound), Sonex (foam, killing the sound), RPG (sound diffusers), and RoomTune (barricade systems). Since those days we have designed a range of acoustical products to fit all the possibilities, or at least enough of them that if someone still gets stuck in a place where their room is stuborn beyond reason, we can help them customize for their particular need. The RoomTune Pillow Product is in over 80,000 rooms and is probably the easiest most practical of all the treatments.

RADSJ

By the way, what exactly is the material you use?

mg

With the RoomTune Pillow Product, there is loose batted full range fiberglass as the burn, the barricade membrane is a woven treated metal, mylar, kraft mix, and the RoomTune acoustical fabric, not gonna tell ya.  Very Happy (one of the secrets to it's transparent sound) .

RADSJ

Why did you choose such materials?

mg

Oh my, once you get to know how extreme I am in listening, it will give some insights to the reasoning and the years of development. The basic answer though would be. I use materials for specific reasons. In the case of the Pillows, it was a matter of finding the right burn and using a barricade system that allowed me to get 4 times the amount of burn, while keeping the room linear.  If you don't have linear harmonic structures the soundstage is limited, as well as the pitch of the instruments. When we say barricade what this means is we do our burning away from the listener. Almost always the barricade side faces you, while the burn is happening behind the barricade. This allows us to use far less area to get the job done. For example, and not to pick on the trap guys, look at their cloth. It's an industrial dampener. This means no matter how well their internal burn may be, you are going to have part of the musical info dulled, missing or even out of pitch. Also look at the other treatments that use burn. They all use compressed burn. This means their burn is not full range. Again I don't like to talk about others product as they all need to make a living and have done quite well. But, if you notice, most of these guys appeal to the engineer type. They talk about frequencies and we talk about musical notes. We talk about "timbre" which is the key to great sound (fundamental plus support harmonics). Size does not decide your timbre or harmonic range when it comes to burn. Loose batt burns 4 times (even more in some rooms) more than compressed batts. With the loose batting the fibers become far more activated.

Here's something that I would say sets us apart.

"you can have a great frequency response, and sacrifice all the music"

Musical timbre depends on the ability to spread the support harmonics. Better harmonics better and bigger space. The closer your space is to "real size, real space" the more life like the recording becomes.

as far as the questions, that's how we as listeners get to know each other, ask away

study

enjoy TuneLand Exclamation

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PostSubject: Pretty serious system!   Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:38 am

RADSJ:

I am jealous! (in a good way)!

Could you take some time and list your components? In addition to room tuning, I am curious to see what choices in components, cables, etc others have made to arrive at sonic goodness.

Kind Regards,

Ron
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:15 pm

Hi Ron,

My system is:
1. Conrad Johnson CA200 Amplifier
2. DAC Esoteric D-05
3. Sonus Faber Cremona Speakers + Gyrotension feet (Large). Added after taking the pictures above.
4. Mac Mini + 3 Portable HD + M2Tech Hiface EVO on the top of a Tranquility Basik, which rests on the top of 3 metal feet.
5. Bybee Stealth power conditioner
6. Cables: 1) Interconnect Element Tungsten Interconnect; 1) USB Active SE from Synergistic Research; 1) XLR Kimber Kable Select KS 2120 Digital Cable; 1) Kaplan Cables H.E. II Power Cord.
7. Firewalls (great product) installed on DAC, EVO, Speakers and Mac .

What about yours?

Regards,
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PostSubject: Installation   Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:19 pm

Hi Michael,

I received today my squares and LXTs. I am Ok about installing them on the front wall. But I have questions regarding ceiling and side walls. As you have an idea from the pictures, I have painting hanging on wall and furniture. How to deal with this uneven situation? What information should I give to you to a proper install?

Regards,

Rosevarte
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:57 pm

Hi Rosevarte

As you can see there are two sides to the tunes. The side you want against the wall is the soft (burn) side. You can tell by feeling them or holding them up close to you and talking into them. One side (the burn side) will sound dead, and the other side (live side) you will hear your voice clearly. You can also feel the membrane on the live side. This is the side you want face you. Burn against the wall and live facing the room.

What I would recommend is to put some music on and do a little listening, turn the music off, put up the front upper Tunes, and come back and listen again and report the change. We can step through this or you can do it on your own, which ever way you would like.

I have to run out for a few but will check back in a little bit.

here's a basic video with Harold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rufEnsVR_eE

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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:30 pm

Hi,

According to the positioning proposed on the pictures above, it seems that the squares and the XLTs should be placed against only one wall. However, according to the video, I have the impression that they should be placed against the two walls, having their center at the corner where the two walls meet. Am I clear?

Thanks,

Rosevarte
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:13 pm

Hi Rosevarte

your welcome

If they are put flush it is less burn and angled more burn. Go ahead and angle them, and if we get too much burn we will tune using less of an angle. But I think on the angle you will be fine. Let's give it a listen and see how we are doing.

Once I read what your hearing it will help me get you fine tuned.

also, don't be shy about asking questions that's why I'm here

have fun Exclamation

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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:41 pm

Hi Rosevarte

Welcome to Tuneland Exclamation
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PostSubject: Installing Squares and LXTs   Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:12 pm

Hi,

I had to travel and I was not able to install my squares and LXTs. I need to know where to correct place them on the ceiling and the lateral walls. Please, advise.

Regards,

Rosevarte
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:30 pm

Hi Rosevarte, welcome home.

As we talked about, go ahead and put up the upper corners, mid corners and upper mid-seams according to how the video suggest. Be sure to do a listening before and after.

Let me know when you have this done, so I can hear what your room is sounding like. Here's a new drawing showing the seams covered.



If you want to send me or post pictures as you go that would be great. I'll be back later today to take a look.


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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:10 pm



See picture of installed tunes. I got a much better taming of the bass, but I would like to get a little more, is it possible?

http://www.servimg.com/view/19220095/11
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:36 am

Now lets do the back.


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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:45 am


Hi Rosevarte

Congratulations on the improvements to your system! Michael's products really work don't they?

Hi Michael

A question: Sonic notices that you guided Rosevarte to mount RT Squares at the top corners where previously the triangular Corner Tunes would go.

Here I see the RT Squares mounted across the upper corners attached on three sides - to the ceiling and two side walls. There is an opening below.

Is this more effective in taming the corners compared to the triangular Corner Tunes which create an enclosed space behind them when mounted?

Which is more effective for my room given my hard walls and ceiling?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:30 pm

Hi Sonic

The answer is flexibility. Is the RT Square going to do more in the corner vs the CornerTune is room dependent. In your case I would certainly give this a try and see if you like it over the CT. I would also consider PZC's.



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PostSubject: Re: RADSJ's System "new to tuning"   Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:44 pm

Hi,

I can see the images for the back and side walls, and ceiling. But, how can I know where is right location for the tunes? I mean, distance from one to the other; distance between them; where on ceiling, etc.

I added more photos to give a better perspective of my room. As you can see, there is a sofa on one side and a kind of not-movable wood box on the other side. So, since the furniture in the room is very asymmetric, how could I better place the tunes. Sorry for the little mess, but I am moving things around.

Thanks!

http://www.servimg.com/view/19220095/17
http://www.servimg.com/view/19220095/18
http://www.servimg.com/view/19220095/19
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