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 Old Tunee - Newer System

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garp



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PostSubject: Sonic's reply   Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:33 am

Sonic,

I did not comment on all of Dudley's article, specifically his argument of the advantages of lps vs cds. If I were starting a system today, I would keep it as simple as possible - CD, integrated amp, and speakers. For you and I, we have vinyl because of large lp collections. Also, good used vinyl costs half of what I spend on used cds locally.

What I really like about Dudley's article as well as Michael's recent excellent response, it provides us important views of the history of our hobby's evolution. While Dudley did not step far into the ideals of the arts and craft movement, there is enough analogy of what the arts and crafts movement still is all about and what Michael offers every day with his evolution of a simple, tuned system. I am a student of the arts and craft movement as it evolves. Today, the arts and crafts movement has evolved to include artisans of the US, Europe, and Asia. It asks us to keep our life, our home and possessions as well as our hobbies as simple as possible. While Dudley honors those audio industry craftsmen who care about creating the best sounding equipment that they can achieve with very little profit margin, Michael offers a path to maximize the audio playback in our homes often using the audio equipment created by the modern artisans. Many of us including me would have saved ourselves much time and money if we had chosen Michael's path in the beginning. As we become better listeners, we gain a better appreciation of the art of music and what the music artisans are attempting to communicate. In the end, we all choose our own paths to this sonic nirvana.
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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Old Tunee - Newer System   Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:12 am

Hello Garp

"Michael offers a path to maximize the audio playback in our homes often using the audio equipment created by the modern artisans. Many of us including me would have saved ourselves much time and money if we had chosen Michael's path in the beginning. As we become better listeners, we gain a better appreciation of the art of music and what the music artisans are attempting to communicate. In the end, we all choose our own paths to this sonic nirvana."

Agree absolutely with what you say  cheers 

I also like the idea that in Sonic's journey to musick via Michael's tuneland, I share in the creation of my system in a tangible way, where my system becomes an extension of me and my tastes rather than merely a series of boxes wired together.

Sonic
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Old Tunee - Newer System   Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:53 pm

sonic said

"However it strikes me that it is somewhat ironic that we at the Tune are finding a completely different plane of audio with equipment that is the opposite of artisanal audio -- now Michael's room treatments, racks, platforms and speakers are artisanal audio truly in spirit and in deed but the Magnazox, Sherwood and yes, my Sony DVD player are mass discount store cheapies. Yet when tuned they reproduce music to a level that CD players and amp costing a car cannot. The operative idea is "when tuned".

So it becomes a question of what we want to tell people come to this site with questions. They will have invested in equipment, they may have tried to treat their rooms. I doubt the Tuneland is the sort of place someone will drop in saying "I got no equipment yet, I may have a spare room and a bit of $ to spend on an audio system, can you tell me where to start?"

It will be more likely "Hi, I got a Network Storage System and I got a problem..." "I have this apartment and my Quad dipoles are.....", "Hi, I have this Thorens and Tannoys and they don't seem to be getting on with each other, can you help..."

Is the answer then "hey, you got it all wrong with your Martin Logans, Jadis amps...sell it all and get a Sherwood and Magnazox!" They will just walk away.

Fundamentally we must remember that these are people with real world problems, perhaps with lots of monetary or emotional investment in their systems and they are customers of Mr Green and his highly effective products. "

mg

I'm not sure when it was, but along the way I realized that there was another chapter that should take place. My products no longer were products to me but a method. This method if you read some of the writings on the archives  was more about the whole world picture, and audio (my personal passion) was the door opener to this world.

With something as big as the tune, it gets to a place where you realize that this bolder is going to be much harder to push up hill than I thought. If I named all the products on my list to tune (redesign or invent) two things would happen, one Drewster (patent lawyer) would shoot me, the other it would open the door for folks who have different goals in their lives than seeing products get developed. When one has something truly innovative the wolves are not far from your heels.

I won't get into the other designs, but as far as this industry every time I have entered with the thought of one or two products within a month it turns into the whole thing again. It's an all or nothing type of adventure. I'll be honest it's not my goal to tune other products by taking them apart and tuning them. This is not the way to take an industry into the future. This industry and the pro music industry should have always been tunable. Having fixed products could be one level, but the audiophile level should not be a bunch flavors being thrown together. What it should be is a well designed musical instrument used to play back music. I don't look at myself as an accessory maker but the inventor of tunable audio.

There's only one reason this industry is not already variably tunable. I have not beat the drum loud enough.

I know it may look sometimes like I'm making clubs, the ma700 club and the sherwood club, but this is only for the sake of finding a common bond of simplisty. Taking my system down to two power supplies is remarkable, and although I know some of you guys have more than that every time I hear someone heading toward one or two less supplies I know how big the change is.

well michael your here to tune our systems

Nope, your here to tune your systems. I'm just a guy with a goal to change an industry and happen to be privileged enough to make some tuning goodies for you. Sometimes I wonder if you guys know how important TuneLand is. Your paving the way of the future audiophile industry. You guys have no idea how much these readers out there are hoping you have the greatest of success. They have been trying all their lives and you guys are doing it. Your getting closer to the music than anyone at anytime in the history of this industry has . You guys are not making a fixed choice but tuning the audio signal.

I truly hope that Harold and I can make this next step happen. I've tried but this is no small step. Every day I'm faced with telling someone that a $100 receiver and a $29 player will beat up on their 25k-500k systems. That's a challenge, but it's also the truth. If the industry wouldn't have taken the turn it did I wouldn't be put in this position, but it did and I am. And I will help whoever comes, but I hope I don't water down the message by being looked at as a accessory guy.

I want you to know I do understand the emotional investment, but I can either spend my time being a counselor or a designer. It takes one listen for an open minded music lover to buy into the tune, it takes a life time for the typical audiophile to buy in. Somewhere I have to draw the line or this will never get to the place it needs to be and that means the audiophile will not get to their dream.

If you remember years ago when we were on a roll and even before tuneland a guy would come to me with their system and I said, you need this system instead, and honestly most of the time that listener dumped his old and took on the new. This will happen again as the excitement builds. I mean come on who can't afford these components and give tuning a try? I really think that it's ego, and that's a problem that's deeper than the tune. Watch what happens when 20 people are on tuneland talking about their tuned system. In this industry that's a flood.

I want to also make another point though. See how I never push Garp in a direction. That's because I can sense his listening and agree with him that he is the master of his system. I can feel his music as if I were there, and know that he needs his system to be a certain way. I know I would walk in his room and not want to leave for a while.  So I'm not saying my choice is for everyone, my choice is for everyone to find their choice and I can usually tell when someone has arrived or is still in that stage where they are close but still may not have the right combo. That's when you'll see me push a little. It's like there are certain triggers that get pulled and I on this end can see someone is in a little trouble. At that point it's really hard for me cause I hate to have anyone think I know more than they do or am trying to push them around. It's not that at all, it's things someone might say about the sound or the way a system reacts, where it sends me a signal Idea . It's like knowing that this part is fighting that part and I'm only trying to help that listener get out of their trap. It may come off judgemental but I guess I am being asked to be a music judge as people ask me what I think. But I have to be truthful and say I think about these things all day long and try to figure out how not to offend many times. It's like I can hear their system on the other side, but don't want to have them fall while I lift them over the fence.

I mean sometimes I read a post like http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/t169p105-hiend001-s-system and say he's right, life would be a lot easier if folks did this. Then There's that other side to me that says michael be nice their going to feel picked on, but it's really not that I would want to pick on anyone, I just get excited for them.

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garp



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PostSubject: New platform   Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:53 pm

It has been quite some time since I posted although music continues to occupy some of my free time besides long distance bicycle riding. The topic of this post is the arrival of my tuning platform which is settling as I write this update. I am currently listening to my ultralight tube system composed of MR C4 preamp, MR 245.1 45 tube amp, and the trusty Maggie CD connected to 95db speakers. The amp has been placed on the smaller tuning platform which sits in front of the new larger tuning platform. Both platforms sit atop smaller spiked MGD birch platforms. Since the preamp, cd, and phono pre do not require much space, all three components easily reside on the new platform. Once this platform settles, I will set up both of my turntables and provide updates.

The first thing I noticed was way deep and tall soundstage and the big time dynamics more that would be expected from a flea powered amp. There seems to be a increase in volume. Percussion and reeded instruments sound almost live already. I am already impressed!

Thanks Michael and Harold, the wait was worth it.
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PostSubject: Re: Old Tunee - Newer System   Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:49 pm

Hi Garp

I'm so happy Exclamation

BTW, I still have my eye out for high db drivers.

Two things I want to do after the Viola line is well on it's way is a replacement for the Chameleons (have a driver in mind already) and a high efficiency speaker.

Also just to mention we are making our hardwood tweeter plates again.

During voicing Harold and I decided to mod the tweeter all the way and do away with stock tweeter plates.

have fun!

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garp



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PostSubject: tweeter plates   Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:19 am

Michael,

I still use the original tweeter plates on my 60s. Did you change the wood?
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PostSubject: Re: Old Tunee - Newer System   Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:46 pm

Hi Garp

You have the stock plastic?

We're going to make a few different plates, so the person can choose how they want the harmonics to sound. Right now I'm listening to the poplar plates.

With the poplar being the middle (starting point), the lower tone from the bottom are (will finalize soon), magic wood, alder, brazilian pine, western red cedar, poplar, cherry, hard maple, rosewood and I might be trying purple heart too.

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PostSubject: Re: Old Tunee - Newer System   Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:19 pm

Hi Garp

Harold here finally digging my way out from under, after the visit to Michael's. Michael says he understands the one component Mini Tuning Rack, but not so much an adjustable speaker stand.

Can you give me more of an idea from starting height to total height so MG can draw you up a proto?

thanks

Coop
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