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 Tuning and Musical Adventures

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:13 pm

Greetings Zonees

I been busy this week at work that Sonic has not definitely concluded my tests round the TPU Door Seals.  Though with settling, I am feeling that while the bass is there and increased, the midrange is emphasised. Sonic is going slow, checking my system settings over again. Let's see where we are by the middle of next week.

But on discovering some too tight connections and loosening them, an hour of music play tonight (with the system fully warmed up) shows promise of the big bass and smooth midrange that Sonic was so happy with last week returning.

scratch  scratch  scratch

So the only progress I made was this:

Ortofon 2M Blue Replacement Stylus

Sonic had thought hard about either:

a.          replacing my Ortofon 2M Blue stylus – which now has crossed over the 1,000 hours of use mark and it is now at the end of the time limit on the life of the diamond and Sonic should change it early well before I hear increased distortion or noise.

OR

b.           replacing the Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge with a Moving Coil device like the Ortofon Quintet Blue or Dynavector DV-20X2 L.

In the end, Sonic chose to replace the Ortofon 2M Blue stylus.  

Why?

There are five reasons:

1.          The Ortofon 2M Blue has given me excellent service and deep down I am contented with its performance.

2.          If I change to an MC (or any other cartridge) I will have realign the cartridge in the arm to get Baerwald geometry. I could do this without too much trouble with a Dr Feickert protractor (a good device indeed!). However a replacement stylus is a “plug and play” action with no realignment required

3.          All the MC cartridges I would consider will cost more than the 2M Blue and multiples of a replacement 2M Blue stylus – and this will be the replacement cost each time the stylus of the MC reaches the end of its useful life. Add to that a realignment job which I can do myself – but that is a factor too.

4.          If Sonic should ever bend the cantilever or damage the stylus in an accident, the MM replacement stylus unit will be cheaper. I was told of an audiophile in this town who has a $12,000 MC cartridge and he was showing it off and in a distracted moment miscued the arm and bent the stylus     It cost him >$6,000 to replace the cantilever and stylus not to mention a four-month wait between sending the whole cartridge back to the manufacturer and getting it returned.  If I dropped the 2M Blue, it will be a phone call/whatsapp message then a 30 minute drive into town and Sonic will quickly be heading home with a replacement stylus. And a modest outlay.

5.          The MC vs MM debate goes on.  There are those who say MCs give a musical breath of life while other listeners say MMs are more accurate (a loaded word, if you seen some of Sonic’s recent posts) and more linear.  These same listeners say that none of the great mastering engineers use MCs as their reference – the cartridge much liked by Doug Sax and such respected one are the Stanton 681 EEE or the Stanton 881S. Sonic is in no position to judge what is or what not "accuracy" acknowledging it is largely in the ear of the listener.  No one can prove which (MC or MM) is objectively more accurate -- the selection is ultimately subjective made on the basis of the listener's taste.  

So if this or that expert uses MM is something that Sonic doesn't care about.  The deciding factor of greatest influence on me in this decision is Point 1 -- that  I am so satisfied with my sound and the reliable, unfussed service of the Ortofon 2M Blue that I did not feel like spending $1,000 for a new cartridge.

Sonic  


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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:25 am

Sonic thinks this is one of the most beautiful tonearm/cartridge assemblies in appearance ever  Very Happy

Source:  http://blog.livedoor.jp/thorens/archives/52059937.html

Choshi’s Walking Path

June 22, 2013


FERRANTI Ribbon Pick-up

Ferranti ribbon pickup, to listen. The needle pressure is 3 g, while processing the big hole in the temporary arm board, while stepping the arm base steplessly, while checking the optimum position of the trace, while listening to the sound. At the same time, the breathing work can read the change of the sound due to the difference of the overhang, and the capability and the unknown ability become visible. TadamonoDehanai, the smoothness of sound movement. Crawling on the board, a form reminiscent of a snake. Goodness of preservation Good quality. 

Among the pickup systems that heard sounds and heard it, they are fascinated by the beauty of a kind of rare movement. There is no arm rest, it is fixed automatically when shaking to the right. I feel like I can not react well with such a stoic system, Gallard 301 as well as TD 124. Mr. T judged Connoisseur Craftsman - 2 early model, and in accordance with it judged it was stored in the special cabinet which he made.  When passing through the dedicated transformer for FS 12, output as much as 15 mv can be obtained. Then it is understood that it is a pickup system which is not comparable. Small boxes folded correctly with silver paper, the way the timbre appears is lighter and like a lie.  There is no dust such as sound of Hentai full opening, weakness.  If everyone listens it will be attracted.




I remembered that I could be happy after listening to music.

As for this system, Mr. T who is moved, will write in detail later.



If you take time taking care of it from now on, you should get a better sound gradually little by little.
Designed by DTN Williamson, well known for Williamson circuit. 

It was introduced to AMERICAN PRESS magazine in autumn 1953, and it was released in the UK in 1954. Boss Peter Walker of Acoustical (the predecessor of QUAD) has said that he used this pickup for the prototype reference of electrostatic speakers. It must have been sort of music.

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:51 am



Returning to the Groove

After investigating, Sonic found more probable causes in the tonal shift that contributed to the detour in my evaluation of the TPU Door Seals.

It started with my finding a loose mains connection within the wall plug feeding the Parasound A21. Within the plug the Live, Neutral and Earth wires had become very loose -- meaning if the strain relief was not there, a casual tug on the cable would have separated the cable from the plug. This would have caused a spark and tripping of the ELCB in the dwelling.

After tightening up adequately, the sound started coming back into Tonal Balance.

Sonic then checked the tightness of the system main feeds which my written Tuning Records indicated I had tuned by loosening from mains box external to my dwelling to the plugs feeding the individual pieces of equipment in Sonic’s system. Many were found to be now looser than Sonic set them for tuning. The re-tightening was of course done after taking proper safety precautions such as switching off the mains relays and testing that the electricity was indeed off before checking on the connection with insulated tools.

After tightening the connections adequately, more evidence of the sound coming back into tonal balance is heard. I should soon be able to get a stability to tell Zonees if the TPU Door Seal project is success or otherwise.

In Sonic’s observation there are three states of cable tightness observed whether they are speaker cables or main cables.

Loose, just in contact: upward shifted sound, midrange glare, bass full though not very extended

Tightened to make contact and then a 1/16 or 1/8 turn more till a kind of “bite” is felt: this is what Sonic thinks of as “Adequately tight”. Once this settles, King Tone drops by to Sonic’s dwelling for a visit Very Happy -- the mids and treble smooth out, there is no upward shift, no glare, bass is full, deeper and extended. I get a soundstage and images that are hanging like a 3D curtain across and front to back in the room and unrelated to the Magneplanar MG1.5QR panels as the source.

Very tight: the sound shifts upward, midrange glare, bass goes thin and the production of the sound is now related to the panels.

Now back to settling and evaluation of the TPU Door Seals. Let’s see what Sonic finds and writes into my Friday report.

Sonic


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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:28 am

Back in the Groove Again but Perplexed

Early this week as I brought the mains connections into proper and balanced tightness, my Tune Instinct whispered in Sonic’s ear pointing to the response of the doors.

A removal of the TPU seals seemed to put the sound back in the groove.

Now four days of settling and the bass weight and extension are almost fully what Sonic expects and the midrange is closer to being in balance again.

It appears that the doors are beyond my ability to comprehend and tune. They have effect on the overall sound of the room.  And my attempt to tune them by sealing the gaps with the TPU product has failed provably – it started out well with more bass power and girth then after about 10 days the sound went into an upward shift which reversed all the gains.

Much the same thing happened when Sonic used those plastic mats on the doors.  Always the same routine -- a good start then a shift up in pitch after about seven days.

So the perplexing factors facing me are these:  

1.          The doors have a major influence on the Tone of my room – for good sound or bad.

2.          Earlier attempts to tune the doors by sticking Space Cones, hanging plastic mats against them and now installing TPU seals have not worked, after what appears to be a success an upward shift is always the result

3.          Sonic is prohibited from drilling into the doors as part of the Terms of Use of my dwelling though hanging things on the doors using hooks is permitted (as long as no drilling is done).

4.          If the doors can shift the pitch up, they logically should be able to shift the pitch down.

Michael – what can Sonic do with the doors? Can you tell me what you would if you had a free hand and also what I can do given the limitations Sonic faces?

Sonic  


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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:24 pm

Hi Sonic

you said

Michael – what can Sonic do with the doors? Can you tell me what you would if you had a free hand and also what I can do given the limitations Sonic faces?

mg

First we should talk about "why". Why did this happen? Almost every time I have done direct absorption I have run into a similar result, within reason. Because your walls are harder, after settling the distortion that the direct absorption gave you starts to show up. It was there in the beginning as well, but after changes are made you usually are hearing the first and second harmonic structure of the room fully, or partially developed. Once you get into more harmonics affecting the fundamentals, the out of balance zones start to make themselves known. I can usually tell with you when this is about to take place, and use to warn you, but after a while I start to let you get into these "audiophile induced" places. I know sometimes it's tough to understand that these audiophiles (designers, reviewers and other listeners) are out of touch, but you will find that the tune goes a lot deeper into sound than any of these guys. Go back and review where you have been and how when you start to move more in the direction of the audiophile how you fall into these holes. It's ok to visit audiophile-land but realize Sonic it is by nature different from the tune.

Now that I have more audiophile equipment, it's so easy for me to hear when they go astray. Most of the time there's nothing I can do about it, because I'm trying to keep these units as close to stock as I can. It will still be a while before audiophiles can fully understand the tune to the level that allows them to solve all recording situations. The Audolici A25M is that one exception so far, and even it has moments that I have to work on, because it's not totally stripped down. I also have hopes for the AVP-01 and AP-01. The rest of the models I can hear the audiophile-ism in them even though they are great products.

What I'm saying is, I can still hear the audiophile sound in your system, and every time you go down a path, I think to myself "it doesn't need to be this hard". I know I for years have sounded like that broken recorded, but maybe since we are actually in production on some stuff it will be easier to get you going down a different path.

now back to your room

I'm now designing the Floorstanding acoustical products different than I have before. I've realized that doing too many models of products weigh down our ability to produce and make a profit. Now that I'm pretty sure there aren't nearly as many high end audiophiles out there vs what the industry is leading people to believe, it has helped me to focus in on being more flexible and specific. You guys have probably noticed the floor standing units around here look a lot like Brazilian Pine/LTR Platforms with bases on them. Well to a degree that's what they are. I have found a synergism that makes everything easier. It's taken a few years but the more I worked on it the more I realized what was going on. Finally getting into production allowed me to put things to the test. The latest PZC will be made with the backs open and the user will be able to add the burn by attaching the pillow to the back. Yep, pretty darn smart Idea I'm simplifying the tuner and making it front adjustable and frame sides adjustable. The SAM's will be made the same way. So picture this. My speakers, stands, platforms, PZC's, SAM's, Cable Grounds (already are), Blocks, Subwoofer and Sub crossover (in it's tunable box), everything is made to work together and off of each other. Still doing the Spikes & Cones. Still doing the Cable, and adding a special stranded cable to the mix that I have figured out how to bake and voice (that was a trip believe me). There will be voicing accessories available and I doubt there will be many spaces that will not be able to be tuned. And if so, and they have the money, they can do the Tunable Room.

Sonic, I think your doors are one of the best attributes of your room. Now that you have gone through your testing, lets make some voiced shims. You'll have to put them in place every time you close your door but nothing you can do about that. Do you have cedar shims there? If not I can make you some.

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Sonic.beaver



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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:45 am



Greetings Michael cheers

Thanks for responding in such goodly detail!

Mr Green said: Sonic, I think your doors are one of the best attributes of your room.

Sonic asks: why do you say this?


Back in the Groove Again and Less Perplexed

Two more days of settling with the system back in the previous and “original configuration” and the sound of the system is back to my accustomed Tonal balance again. At one level, this is the sound that Sonic finds satisfaction with, though I know it can always be improved. This is the adventure, is it not?

Comments from Sonic on Michael’s suggestion: “Now that you have gone through your testing, lets make some voiced shims. You'll have to put them in place every time you close your door but nothing you can do about that. Do you have cedar shims there? If not I can make you some.”

Sonic: Yes, cedar shims from MGA will be nice. The gaps between my doors and their frames are all uneven eg: one door, it might be 1/10 inch, another door it might be 1/8 inch, more so too the gaps between the bottom of the doors and the floor surface. How do we deal with this?

Also Michael said: “You'll have to put them in place every time you close your door but nothing you can do about that.”

Sonic: this is Ok for the stationary/bolted half of the doors pair. I’ll just put the shims in and bolt the door and they will be “jammed” in place. For the doors that are used for ingress and egress can I not glue the shims to the door frames with thin double sided tape?

Are we looking to for a tight fit where the door is compressing the shim against the frame OR are we going for a loose fit to partially fill the gaps?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:47 am

Mr Green said: Sonic, I think your doors are one of the best attributes of your room.

Sonic asks: why do you say this?

mg

Because they are wood. The doors may not be perfect but because they are wood, they are alive, meaning they are natural resonators.

sonic

Comments from Sonic on Michael’s suggestion: “Now that you have gone through your testing, lets make some voiced shims. You'll have to put them in place every time you close your door but nothing you can do about that. Do you have cedar shims there? If not I can make you some.”

Sonic: Yes, cedar shims from MGA will be nice. The gaps between my doors and their frames are all uneven eg: one door, it might be 1/10 inch, another door it might be 1/8 inch, more so too the gaps between the bottom of the doors and the floor surface. How do we deal with this?

mg

I'll pick up some to prepare. Shims are built specifically for different spacing cause they are wedge shaped.

Also Michael said: “You'll have to put them in place every time you close your door but nothing you can do about that.”

Sonic: this is Ok for the stationary/bolted half of the doors pair. I’ll just put the shims in and bolt the door and they will be “jammed” in place. For the doors that are used for ingress and egress can I not glue the shims to the door frames with thin double sided tape?

mg

Once you start to play with them it will be easier to get the use figured out.

sonic

Are we looking to for a tight fit where the door is compressing the shim against the frame OR are we going for a loose fit to partially fill the gaps?

mg

I'm guessing you will probably use them as tuning wedges that are not so much there to block any air flow but more as a tonal shaper. They will also help your staging, because they will help the doors to become tuners of their own balancing pluses. The shims will also work as nice transfer devices between the doors and frames and other things in you space and system I believe.

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:45 am



Greetings Michael Very Happy

Getting the Cedar Shims Going

Have a look at my post of May 26 on this thread where you will see pix of my doors.

Note please the positions of the hinges.

There are two ways to shims/wedges:

a. a number of strips of thin Cedar that fit in the spaces between the hinges -- that will be four pieces of Cedar (two long and two short pieces) for each door that is shimmed.

b. go to the other side of the door where the door closes against a step in frame of about 5/8 inch. If we shim this side, it will be one long piece from top to bottom of the door since there are no hinges to clear.

Note too that the doors are 1 5/8 inches thick.

Which approach do you recommend?

What measurements do you need from Sonic to prepare the shims?

As I think about it, the taper angle of the shims will be critical. The angle will have to be shallow enough to allow maximum contact area against the doors and the frame. The gaps apart the tops and bottom of the doors are on the order if 1/16 inch.

If the angle of the wedge is too large the shim won’t extend far into the door/frame gap, the door and frame will grip the tip of the wedge so the contact area will be less and the shims will consequently be lower in effectiveness. Not to mention the shims will work loose and fall out.

Michael -- your thougths?

Sonic

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:24 am

Hi Sonic

The shims are designed specifically for door spacing. Here's a pic of raw ones before I do what I do.




Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:45 am

Greetings Michael

So those are the Cedar wedges.  Using the dimensions you gave, Sonic made a cardboard mock up.

Applying the wedges will look like so:



Sonic has a few questions:

a.          why are the wedges 8 inches long?  They will just some way from the door, might pose a danger to people walking by.

b.          at the sharp end, are the wedges tapered to a point?

c.          the wedges are only 1.5 inches wide! I was imagining the wedges would be broader so they couple more area between the door panel and door frame than being this narrow. How many are needed to tune a single door like mine which is 82 inches high?

d.          are users expected to cut the Wedges so the make a snug fit in the door gaps?

e.          what is the Tune Thinking behind these wedges?

f.           how do you suggest the wedges be used to tune double doors like Sonic's?

The gaps between my doors and the frames vary, from 1mm to 3mm. More at the bottom of course. Any thoughts Michael?

Harold -- PM me on the cost if you will.

Sonic



Greetings Zonees

Alan Shaw always can be found with readable views! Here is something attributed to him – it is not from Harbeth Users’ Group.

Sonic found this at:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/how-to-design-a-great-rock-music-speaker-alan-shaw-harbeth.160297/

How to design a great rock music speaker ... (perhaps?):

This has been an interesting few posts about 'what makes a great rock speaker'. There have been some useful contributions, but looking at this clinically I think that the entire design approach for rock compared with say, 'acoustic music' is very different. Remember that there is, of course, no such thing as the perfect loudspeaker or the perfect car or motor bike. So let me try and imagine that a Design Specification arrived on my desk from the Marketing Dept. and what they would probably want the speaker to do and how I would attempt to deliver that to them. This is just for fun! As I am not experienced in the design of rock speakers I'm sure that a real designer would be able to add significantly to this very short list. Here are the Marketing's department's hypothetical product specification and my responses:

1. High sensitivity, high power handling,"Loud and proud"

OK, this implies the main drive unit has to be engineered in a certain way. It implies that the moving mass must be reduced by saving weight wherever possible. We'd have to tackle the weight reduction as a priority. Lighter cone, probably paper not plastic. Thinner surround (probably foam or paper surround, not heavy rubber). Hard glues throughout not softer heavier glues. Taken together, this strongly hints that there will be less damping in the cone/surround system (because damping is always heavy) and that the sound will be more coloured. But for rock music, that is a non-issue. Reducing the moving weight of the cone/col/surround will reduce the inertia*, which will allow the cone to start and stop as quickly as possible. For acoustic music this has no advantage, but for rock music played at a high level where the cone is being flung backwards and forwards tracing the bass notes this could be an advantage.

Increased power handling by using a high-power voice coil wound onto indestructible hard Kapton not the soft material used in Harbeth voice coils; Kapton will give a certain 'bite' to the sound**. Large magnet = high sensitivity, tight, dry bass. Lowish DCR [Sonic: DC Resistance – what reading you get on an ohm meter when you measure across the terminals of an unconnected loudspeaker] to pull lots of power from the amp.

2. Attention-grabbing sound balance

Possible. Implied here is that the speaker will be played LOUD. We need to be aware of the Equal Loudness Contours. I'd move from a flat response to putting more energy in to the presence region to pull the image forward out of the box into the lap of the listener. This would be more like the experience in the front rows at a concert. Very exciting. I'd boost the 900Hz region ([Yamaha] NS10 trick) to give vocals a breathiness, an immediacy. I'd adjust the bass to taste.

3. Low cost.

Implies a thick-walled cabinet since no need to tune the box for low colouration. Minimalist crossover since if I under-equalised the baffle-step by skipping components, it would give an overall lift to the middle frequencies which would make the speaker sound full and attractive to the untrained ear.

4. Styling!

Essential to reach out to that market listening at home surrounded by branded goods, wearing branded clothes as 'dedicated followers of fashion'!

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:29 pm

Hi Sonic, I'm running around today so this is a quick answer.

Sonic has a few questions:

a.          why are the wedges 8 inches long?  They will just some way from the door, might pose a danger to people walking by.

mg

They start at 8" long and as you figure out the length desired you cut them off. Or you can have me cut some of them here.

b.          at the sharp end, are the wedges tapered to a point?

mg

Some will have blunt ends and others to a point.

c.          the wedges are only 1.5 inches wide! I was imagining the wedges would be broader so they couple more area between the door panel and door frame than being this narrow. How many are needed to tune a single door like mine which is 82 inches high?

mg

That is something you will figure out once you get use to their transfer. But always watch for over saturation whenever you are making a transfer with lower tone woods. As you have found with low tone woods, it doesn't take a lot of size to make a big difference. On the other hand with these shims you are wise to have a bunch of them cause it's one of those things that can lead to lots of uses.

d.          are users expected to cut the Wedges so the make a snug fit in the door gaps?

mg

Most of the time this is what they do, but I can cut to lengths here as well.

e.          what is the Tune Thinking behind these wedges?

mg

A wedge transfer can be a great tool because a smaller wood surface touches the two points of transfer.

f.           how do you suggest the wedges be used to tune double doors like Sonic's?

mg

There are a few layouts I have in mind, but with doors (because they are hanging on vertical hinges) the transfer and general tuning is different for each door.

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:11 am


Hi Michael

This helps Sonic understand the wedges better. Good stuff Smile

Why are some wedges tapered to a sharp point and some blunt?

What are some layouts to tune the doors you have in mind?

Sonic needs a starting point to order the approximately suitable number of wedges for my doors and avoid waste in ordering.

Sonic

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:54 am

Hi Sonic

I've got 36 of them almost done (they sound very nice).

I think for a placement starting point I may need your help by the way of pictures and description. When I use shims I either start from the outside in or the inside out. Keep in mind though that I listen to every step and placement carefully before moving on. When it comes to this type of listening you are best to tune your system as a whole and not get stuck on one part only.



Lets start by taking a look at all the places that touch when closing the doors.

first thing I would make note of is: Does the room change in sound every time you open and close the doors? The answer is yes, obviously, but how aware are you of these changes?

I, for example, am super sensitive to doors being opened and closed. Sometimes so much so, that it's easier for me to remove the door, or doors, and tune the pressure using PZC FS in the doorway or just inside or outside the room. People look at me odd when I make my way into a listening area cause all the fixtures stick out to me, much like someone who is blind. I feel and hear, I would even say sense, pressure as I walk through rooms. Anyone can do this, but once you become aware of pressure you can walk to a place in a room, hear the pressure shift, stop and look around and see what is making that zone to sound the way it does.

I was recently at a horn speaker designers house and when the music started to play I could hear all these phase-y things shouting out in the room. I walked around, crawed around, tapped around, and could feel the relationship between his speakers and the space. I was even able to guess the wood types and where the horns were made just by experience in my travels and being aware. Now I could have missed by a mile in my conclusions but this time nailed it like a CIA investigative spy. The deeper you get inside of voicing the more your senses open up to the ability to think for your mind. What I'm saying Sonic is each step into your journey you become more of a tool, and that tool can do great things for your listening.

The biggest tool I see (besides your wall, floor, ceiling construction) is your bookcase. The second biggest are your doors.

Sonic asked

"Why are some wedges tapered to a sharp point and some blunt?"

mg

They are this way because of the gradual angle they are cut in. Instead of having, lets say, 20 16" long wedges with this continuous slope, the wedges are 40 8" wedges. The thickness was determined by carpenter usage standards for building around gaps and the contraction and expansion of wood and other materials common to building. It's one of those things that happens to work out good for me cause making these from scratch would cost a small fortune. But because I can pick these up locally and somewhat "DRY" I can produce these pretty reasonable, cost wise. A few blisters in sanding, some even coating, curing, more sanding, thinner coating...and so on...and we have a pretty nice little tuning device.

When I started these you tap on them and it would go "thud". Now with a little more voicing they will sound like a xylophone. I love living in the desert, cause it does a lot of my work for you guys naturally.

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:38 am

Greetings Zonees  Very Happy

Earlier this week Sonic was playing some records of string of quintets and concluded that my room/system has a number of dips in my upper bass in the 80hz to 150hz range while the range from 80hz down to the high 30hzs was OK, even reasonably extended.

The effect of this means some recordings becomes thin sounding while others could sound nice and deep. But the bass was never rich and full even though it had extension. This is due to the thin upper bass. And live music is fat and rich in the bass.

A string quartet with the cello being the lowest instrument could in some key signatures sound nice on this system, while other pieces in other key signatures could go thin and lightweight. On the other hand in music where there are basses playing in the range down into the 40hzs, the sound was nicely weighted with my Magneplanar MG1.5QRs.  So this is the schizophrenia that Sonic’s system displayed and as I learn the Tune Sonic is learning to identify and start dealing with it. Something has to be done – especially after going to a live concert then listening to similar music on return to my listening room.  Yes our audio memory is flawed but impressions do remain.

Short of changing loudspeakers, the only solution is changing the placement.  Now Sonic has mapped my floor so I know pretty much what each position did. By that map, where the Magneplanars MG1.5QRs are (57 inches from the front wall) is about the most balanced in the front zone of the room.

But there was one placement option I never tried because it just seemed too strange to work.


This is a “near side wall location”.

Sonic remembers Michael had once said he made brackets for the Magneplanars that bolted to the side walls. This means the panels will be mounted close to the walls. Now audiophiles will say this is a mad thing to do.

My room tends to throw the bass along the side walls. This Sonic knows from my experiments with the Janis W-1 subwoofer.

Then a quick calculation showed if I put the speaker panels at the 1/7 width points (measured to the centre of the panels) I would be within 2 feet of the side walls, actually the outer edges of the Magneplanar MG1.5QRs would be about 15 inches from the side walls. That is likely where more pressure is.

So Sonic tried this:



Powered up…..I got more bass and a better filled out 80hz – 150hz range.  Sonic decided not to touch anything, not even one Low Tone Redwood block, not one PZC bolt.  Just play musick and let the system settle.

Three days plus of intensive settling and the bass has gained articulation and some initially perceived overhang is gone.  There is no “hole in the middle” which the audiophiles will tell you such as placement will display.  Neither is there sound images bunching on the speaker panels.

The only problem was an image that was stable and centred only when seated centrally, and any small movement of the head will cause the images shift in the direction of the movement of the listener.

This is easy to fix with the Tune.  I moved the central FS-PZC and the two FS-DRTs forward and outward by 4 inches to increase the forward centre Pressure Zone.  The images stabilized as if the speakers were closer together.

Now the bass as improved, I can hear a midrange prominence somewhere between 1khz and 5 khz. Sonic will struggle against this along with residual midrange prominence. From what I have experience, the difference between a suitably projected but realistic midrange and a hard projected one is small, from just right to nasty is not a large change.

Hi Michael


Let’s Look at the Cedar Wedges

MG: I think for a placement starting point I may need your help by the way of pictures and description. When I use shims I either start from the outside in or the inside out.

Sonic: please list the information you need make a recommendation

MG:Lets start by taking a look at all the places that touch when closing the doors.

Sonic: OK understand the contact points are pins, hinges and knobs. Go on….

MG: Does the room change in sound every time you open and close the doors? The answer is yes, obviously, but how aware are you of these changes?

Sonic: I do notice a small effect but dismissed it as my imagination

MG: Sometimes so much so, that it's easier for me to remove the door, or doors, and tune the pressure using PZC FS in the doorway or just inside or outside the room.

Sonic: this will be totally unfeasible for me.  

What next?

Sonic


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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Yesterday at 1:06 am

Hi Sonic

I'll be up this weekend to talk to you about the shims and stuff. Right now though I'm covered with saw dust, voicing platforms and speakers.

Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Yesterday at 11:38 pm

Let’s Look at the Cedar Wedges

MG: I think for a placement starting point I may need your help by the way of pictures and description. When I use shims I either start from the outside in or the inside out.

Sonic: please list the information you need make a recommendation

mg

well I could use close ups of all the potential wedge points of contact, or for now we can look at the drawing

MG:Lets start by taking a look at all the places that touch when closing the doors.

Sonic: OK understand the contact points are pins, hinges and knobs. Go on….

mg


places for potential transfer, or variations of

MG: Does the room change in sound every time you open and close the doors? The answer is yes, obviously, but how aware are you of these changes?

Sonic: I do notice a small effect but dismissed it as my imagination

mg

nope this is very much a part of your every session. I bet this is no small change at all. This also explains some of your failed attempts at things like Space cones as field devices.

MG: Sometimes so much so, that it's easier for me to remove the door, or doors, and tune the pressure using PZC FS in the doorway or just inside or outside the room.

Sonic: this will be totally unfeasible for me.

well in that case you need to put the opening and closing on your regular listening routine, do you open and close both sides?

What next?

Well there's always a ton of things to look at.

lets back up a little

I see some different cables in the system, lets add those to the equation. The more we can identify the sounds of each part and piece the easier it is to see the system as a whole. Sometimes it's hard to step forward without looking at other moves that have changed the formula.

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning and Musical Adventures   Today at 9:24 am



Thanks Michael!

MG: For now we can look at the drawing.

Sonic: I understand the arrangement now. Sonic didn’t expect this many wedges.

Given that the wedges are not stuck in place I wonder how many people it would take to put up and adjust something like this? It would need more than two people for sure and given that each wedge will need adjustment as they might be too tight or too loose when the door closes. And this in turn will affect the other wedges being mounted on the door. And this will be only for the bolted side.

If the doors were tuned like this and each time I have to leave the room, it would be quite an effort to prevent the wedges on the opening door from falling to the floor and then having to put each of the wedges up every time I return and close the door.

MG: [Opening and closing of the doors] this also explains some of your failed attempts at things like Space cones as field devices. Well in that case you need to put the opening and closing on your regular listening routine, do you open and close both sides?

Sonic: How do I put the opening and closing on (my) regular routine? I open and close the doors a lot (mostly one side or the room)? Only one of the doors in a pair is in use (the other being bolted) though very occasionally both doors have to be opened, a couple of times a year.

Sonic

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