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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Michael's System   Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:25 am

Hello zone,

As we explore your systems in the zone I want to share with you the latest in my own personal designs and experiences. Together we will make the best possible listening systems for all of us.

enjoy the "zone"
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:41 am

Hi zone,

I leave for Vegas Nov 1 09. Just wrapping up the last minute details here in Ohio.

The last couple of days we have had a positive event take place. www.tuneland.info is now back on line. I don't have a ton more details than this but when I get settled in Vegas I will look into how we can use TuneLand together with the techno-zone and the up coming MGA on-line store. I need to learn more about the process and the behind the scenes before I move too fast with the website changes that I wish to do. In the meantime thanks to the help of other Tunees I will keep the lines open so we can have our tuning world as secure as possible.

on to the fun stuff

When I get to Vegas I get to start working on my 3 maybe 4 systems. When one thinks (because of my consent touring) of how many systems I have had you have got to wonder if the set up ever gets old?. For me it is exciting and challenging because on one hand I hate that I loose the long term effects of settling and on the other hand I always learn something fresh that is unique to my new place. I have an absolute trust in the tools of tuning which allows me to do anything I want with the music. That is my only constant. Having those tools however is everything. Everything except the craving I have to get my ears back to the dry environment that I have ended calling my listening home.

With this trip back to Ohio I have been able to hear how much the climate effects our ears. This is major and I will be keeping notes as to how my ears re-adjust when I get back to the dry. One thing that I will state again "get yourselves good de-humidifying systems"! This will give you a big edge to your listening skills.

While I'm on my trip you might want to do some reading up on the "law of definite proportions". This touches on the "fixed world" vs the "variable world".

If I don't talk to you before, see you in Vegas.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:05 pm

Tuesday will be here soon enough and I will be into my new listening area.

When we got to Vegas a week ago we needed to stay at the house next door to my place. I had my choice of 2 homes and of course chose the one with the most listening rooms (and nicest pool).

I will have 3 listening rooms and one "tunable room". I can't wait!! Curing the wood for the tunable room should get started in 2 weeks. This Spring be sure to bring your swimming trunks when you visit.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:32 pm

Tuning starts with the house!!!

Yes, believe it or not my phone is finally working 702 368 7550, and yes there are about 3 million people to call back but for this weekend I get to take inventory of my listening quarters.

We'll start with my writing/listening/sleeping room. How nice of the builders to put in a walk-in closet big enough for my bed in what was an upstairs master bedroom. The other nice features are the bath room and 20' X 25' 2nd story balcony with a view of the mountains. The room has a cozy feeling that matches the rest of the house. Since the desert has almost no rain I'll be putting a living room setup out on the balcony (my own little world).

I have absolutely no idea which speakers I will end up with here, but the first pair will be "tune trainee's" 2 way 10". I've all ready picked out the wood and will be starting the cabinets next weekend. The sound of this room will be changed dramatically over the next couple of weeks as I put in platforms, tuning panels, floorstanders, and PZCs. Makes me excited just thinking about it. I have a love seat (fake leather) and instead of setting up my computer with the screen by me I think I will put a flat screen on the wall or stand maybe 20" (that magic spot) out from the wall.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:53 pm

Hi Zonees

This week has been one of material shopping and the beginning of sizing up the rooms for systems. Before I go too far I will need to stop the sound from traveling through the rest of the house. I will make my 3 upstairs systems separate from the downstairs system in this tri-level home. There are some acoustic obstacles in the house to provide me with lots of fun tuning.

Another change that I have made in this particular house as opposed to my other places is in my writing room. I've set up a 32" Flat screen as my computer monitor/small theater screen.

here's the room without tweaking anything



The next while will be very busy.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:52 pm

Hi Guys

Well, while I'm setting up the Quad room I thought I would share the latest on the writing room with you.

My designing speakers are setup in the room right now but soon they will be replaced with the new Mini Mod 6's and Mod 12 sub. I'm using a very old school Pioneer receiver with the Magnavox DP100MW8B DVD. On the table (thought I would use a coffee table like many do in their living room) I have my 32" screen. It was either get a big screen for my writing or get glasses. It will be interesting (already is) working around these obstacles, but this will give me plenty to help others with who have to use a room for more than just listening (at least this is what I'm telling myself right?).



Behind me is a "BigStage" (truly a life saver). In front the RoomTuneART yielding surprisingly great results. Mixed with and SoundStage corner units and SoundShutters this room is already taking on a feel of musicality. I'm sure that in the months to come I will be tempted to just sit back and be lazy with the tune but I guess we all need a room like this if we have more than one listening room. My second story patio is to my left through the glass doors and gives me a beautiful view of the mountains (today they are snow capped). I will be putting in a wood rug but for now the floors are tight berber. The walls are single dry wall on wood studs covered with a typical southwest textured paint. The room flexes very nicely so I expect to make the walls and floor produce low frequencies. Platforms are under the speakers and equipment and of course I'm using Canopies for top tuning (what a difference!). The simple setup with Platforms and Canopies is definitely my fav at the moment. If any of you can make your system simple enough to use Platforms only (2 piece systems source and amp) you will love the sound forever. I know that we tend to be gear heads and have a need for more but for pure listening truth "less" is the winner every time. Later I could see this system become a computer based system only. Drewster kind of spoiled me by putting this in my head. I was thinking that maybe I would go backward and do the turntable thing for the fun of it but why? It's much more exciting for me to move forward and tune the today and the future. So Drewster find me an all in one setup!!

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:48 am

Hi Gang

After working on the new 60s and studio 5s today I'm so tempted to put a pair in my writing room and change the decor a little. That's the problem with design time, I develop new favorites and then I have 12 models fighting for the same spot.

Yes, I will do pictures but for now you you will need to live with the drawings.

here's the 2010 studio 5


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:04 am

Hi Zonees

It's so hard not to post on some of the product going in my rooms before the rest of the world sees them in their homes and studios. Here's a peek at the new RoomTune Deluxe Floorstanders.




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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:14 am

Finally!!

I thought I moved to the desert to get away from the wet weather. The skies cleared today and we hit our first day to go into the 20% humidity range for a whole 5 hours. As soon as it stays between 15 and 30 you'll be looking at a happy camper.

I did get a chance to do a little spaying at the humidity low point and was thrilled to see the finish go on so smoothly. You know what that means GREAT SOUND! I love working in the range of 30% or lower (just below instrument storage range 35-50%). Everything sounds so clear below 30 and if you get your first or second coat on you are assured the chance for 30hz or below frequency reproduction out of my goodies. I was looking on-line recently at speaker designs. I must be way out there compared to the other speaker designers cause I don't hear a peep about humidity while they are building their products. It's all about thick, dead, and woolly to most of them. Oh well dry, live, and open suits me find.

BTW don't know if you guys look much at the product lists on here but you might take a peek at the mod 5's. I've been taking my little babies all the way and will still be offering them at a zone price of $449.00 (per pair) which is pretty crazy for what they are and how much personal time I give them. If you guys know anyone who wants to get into the tune for almost nothing this is a big stepping stone forward.

The mini mod 5 has turned into something really serious and in many ways it does things that no other speaker up till now does. I've been writing people about these a lot lately so if I repeat myself well, read it again. The drivers on the mod 5 have their own baffles that attach to a sub baffle below. This allows me (and the user) to hand tweak each "real solid wood" plate. The mod 5 is like a fine Mercedes that runs a long time. I've based some of my driver and tuning decisions on you so that people can keep these speakers forever if they choose, and can keep up with any changes that might come up down the road. The baffle sizes fit virtually any 5.25 woofer and any common tweeter size used today in mini monitors.

The tweeter I use stock are not stock at all but are hand treated paper/acrylic or acrylic/paper drivers (depending on which way sounds more high end to your friends). I'm using the same tweeter used in the WLM loudspeaker except I hand treat mine with acrylic to give more detail and range. I also don't use an attenuator (as they do) on mine to keep the speaker more open. Another difference between the 2 speakers are that mine start at 1/5 the price which is always a plus these days I'm sure. I do want to say however that WLM is right on the money by choosing this tweeter and more high end companies should take a serious listen to the paper cone design. Don't get me wrong I use and love domes but having 2.5" to work the highs with is really nice especially if you are hand voicing your tweeter plate to get the most out of it. The mod 5 does come with a dome tweeter option and I personally will have both so you can ask what you wish.

Good 5.25s are getting hard to find and thank goodness I have been able to get a good sound out of the poly type 5.25 mid woofers. Saying this I do have a source for my woofers and the driver speaks for itself. It's Danish made coated paper with rubber surround (yeah!). The basket (one of the things that is very important to me) sounds great and works well with the Brazilian pine baffle boards. Although there are many woofers I can make work great in the mod 5 it's nice to have one that I can count on to give me the smooth response I so love. And what a smooth response it is from 35hz-4Khz with no ripples. After that it's a nice no fuss roll, perfect for a tunable cabinet. If you know what you are doing with your acoustics you will be shocked by the biggest plus detail.

Having two drivers that roll into each other is half the battle in my book. Good sounding complicated designs are few and far between and then you have to match them to the components. I have better things to do with my time "like tuning" so when I have a smooth intersection like my 2.5" tweeter going down to 1.8Khz and the 5.25" woofer going up to 4Khz it makes me smile.

look at this, isn't that sweet




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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:12 pm

Michael,

You point about low humidity is an excellent one. The past two evenings I have been relaxing to music after work and noticed that the overall clarity of my speakers has improved and my music ply sub sounds like it was given vitamins. Since I have not touched my racks or room tuning devices in several weeks, I could not initially understand why my system sounded much better.

Upon checking my humidity level, I discovered that my average humidity the past two days has been fixed a 28 when it will often approach the low 40s in warmer weather unless I dehumidify. Anyway, I am enjoying this free sound bonus.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:08 am

Hi Garp

If people paid attention to just this one thing "humidity" and put a little money into keeping the air at the right amount for their system they would be so pleased with the results.

Also I wanted to ask you when you have a moment. I have been looking at single drivers to do a model of tunable speakers with, since you are the man in the know on this topic which ones do you like out of the new ones offered if any and why do you like yours?

You can answer this on your thread if you like or here.

thanks

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PostSubject: single drivers   Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:03 pm

Michael,

While I appreciate your compliment regarding my experience with “pure” single driver speaker systems, my journey along this path has been somewhat disappointing. My coaxial speakers are a compromise to a pure single driver speaker cone adding a compression tweeter with a simple crossover. I continue to use a subwoofer to fill in and overlay the bass. Many single drivers can provide magic to the critical midrange, but they often seem to lose information at both extremes that seem to leave something missing in the overall balance of the music. I see many speaker designers trying to overcome the bass and treble deficiencies by incorporating a transmission line for bass with a ribbon tweeter for treble. Other designers may use a semi open baffle with a single driver augmented with a ribbon or paper tweeter for treble. Integrating all of the drivers to compliment each other is the task that each faces to obtain the best possible sound. Cabinet implementation is critical. First, the cabinet must be all wood to suit my musical tastes. For me, a good speaker design must be resolving but not overly so that poorly recorded music cannot be tuned to be listenable. I like speakers that are musical, very slightly forgiving and slightly sweet. These speakers must sound good without adding ultra expensive electronics. For most here at the Tune and the audiophile market in general, I think most will agree with my speaker design requirements.

I know there are some newer paper woofer designs released recently, but I do not have any experience with these which may be musically superior. There is a designer on the west coast of the US that seems to understand good speaker design better than most. He builds wooden speaker cabinets made of baltic birch using various single drivers with ribbon, silk or paper tweeters. His speakers may not be as aesthetically pleasing as the many MDF speaker cabinet designs with fancy veneers but they do show some promise musically. If I were in the market for a single driver augmented by a super tweeter and a separate subwoofer, I would give serious consideration to a Japanese designer who builds thin-wall monitors of solid hardwood crafted cabinets. This speaker uses a small, custom paper woofer run full range with a Murata super tweeter with no crossover.

I know that I am not offering much help. I have heard many Fostex and hemp speaker designs using large and small drivers. These speakers can be described as having seamless soundstaging, laser speed, and outstanding clarity, but there always seems to be something missing in the upper and lower musical registers without help from a subwoofer or tweeter. The best Fostex design that I have heard is a corner horn which was actually built into the wall of the listening room. While it used some tricks, it did seem to meet my listening requirements. There are many other more exotic single drivers that are costly to purchase such Lowther, Phy-hp and Solovox. I have only heard the Lowthers and they did not impress me for my listening tastes. Again, I suspect a different implementation might have changed my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:59 pm

Thanks Garp

Sounds like I will wait then on the single driver attempt and stay focused on my infinite woofer tweeter combo. If ever one does stand on it's own I would love to make a tunable housing for it. The more I flavor cabinets the more I learn about the woofer tweeter relationship. I must say that I disagree with many on crossover networking fixing supposed problems. Are these problems myth I wonder as I compare the tonal specs of instruments to speaker designs. Has the audio tech mania gone to far to fix things that work themselves out with the involvement of the cabinet? I've seen where people do their testing and the environments are not even close to telling when it comes to putting a sonic value on something. I've dealt with engineers all my life and have almost always questioned their numerology system. So often conclusions are arrived at on a theory basis, only to have the theory itself over turned by a new one. One of these theories is speaker roll off. To my knowledge no speaker has ever been tested in a vacuum successfully with true measurements so speaker roll off would have to be a function of the test room, and not the speaker itself. I've been to tons of speaker factories and have seen this played out before my very eyes. Speaker component designing is fascinating and also very telling. Speaker components are designed and manufactured in a bubble. This is not bad if we remember why we are making the speaker drive units to begin with. In my opinion roll off is a major part of a drivers sound and should not necessarily be disregarded as an evil. Instruments roll off so why shouldn't speakers?

Looking at cabinet and crossover designs is like watching Hannibal Lector eating a victim, "scary". It's ok with me if others wish to turn their speaker systems into robots but I am much more incline to let the driver unit speak for itself and I do the rest by giving these drivers a chance to create what they were made to.

I agree that sweet is the spice of listening. Garp hits it right on the nail here in my book. Sweet is something that I must have in my music. It is the essence of body and keeps music innocently simple. For this reason I am in-love with paper woofers and tweeters. If I'm not using paper you can bet that I'm using enough voiced wood to give that paper feel to the music. Paper is often mis-judged. It's probably the most treatable material used making it wonderful for hand voicing. It's also (in most cases) very easy to drive, which is another one of my wants for a speaker.

Following Garp's system setup along with other tunee's is a joy.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:30 am

Hi Garp

Its always good to hear your views. Your insights on the Fostex, Hemp and Lowther speakers are full of value and guidance. In my neck of the woods open baffles are getting popular using Altec, Goodmans and Fostex drivers and while they are appealing in some ways, they sound like a wide-band midrange driver with a lot of speed at best. You are so right -- something important is lacking.

To Sonic, many full range systems have a depressed 300hz to 1 khz, a peak at around 7 khz and a roll off after that. There is a bass peak around 70hz due to room modes. The open bafles are all mid range without the extremes and they go thin in the 100 to 300hz range where so much of the girth of instruments and voices lie.

Lowthers can be good. I heard one that was excellent but again the low bass was MIA but the liveliness when driven by a 2A3 amp was attractive. Trouble is Lowthers have problems in the tropics with their paper cones and foam surround -- humidity again. They also take a long time to run in and are hard and coarse till they go sweet which takes about a year or more. Then when they are singin' the foam goes off. About 4 years average end to end so I am told.

Fostex with their banana skins makes a better driver. Sonic is thinking of putting together a Fostex open baffle or tapered quarter wave pipe speaker.

So much of what we hear in reproduced musick can be related to and resolved with frequency response explanations. I wonder why frequency response is so rarely mentioned. For sure a measured flat frequency plays back badly -- thin bass, no presence, overly bright treble. But we can recognise it for what it is and what its limitations are. While there is more to creating the soundfield than frequency response, so much can be explained in these terms without having to resort to exotic theories.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:15 pm

Hi Guys

Definitely a topic that needs attention. If you take a close look at the speaker world you will see it full of numbers on one side and fix its on the other. This has almost always been the case and tells us that speakers overall are missing some key ingredients to making things right, or maybe this is an art form much more than the audio industry world has given credit to. I say this in reference to tunable cabinets of course. No speaker is complete in my book unless the cabinet is made to be an extension of the drivers used. As long as the industry fights this the results of their efforts will never be able to take the next step.

"theories can never replace doing"

The whizzer design completely flies in the face of resonate speaker theories. While the design world says"kill kill kill" the practical world knows that this whole thing is based on vibration. The whizzer works off of vibrations, resonance, and waves that the larger cone can not reproduce with it's mass and size with an even response, so therefore the whizzer picks up the same info from the coil and sends it into a small cone at the same time from the same coil source.



This is one approach to making full range, and probably with even more time will get figured out. 20hz to 20Khz is not all that big of a spread if you are using the cabinet to help in the creation of the frequencies.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:11 pm

Hi Zonees

When I pick out drive units I look at several different parts that I have learned over the years to make a huge difference in the sound. Here are 2 of those areas that I thought might be interesting for you (the tuning family) to take a look at to gain insight into how I think on a design level.



If these 2 areas do not work to my liking forget the rest of the design. They are absolutely paramount to the response of a speaker and if utilized properly can raise efficiency and extend frequency response.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:40 pm

This last week

was an interesting one at TuneVilla Vegas. As we were getting in new tools the rain started and we were running around to stop the humidity from getting to the wood supply (something we have had to battle all winter so far).

But sunny starting tomorrow, 70-78 degrees all week with the maximum humidity at 38%. This means cutting, sanding, and finishing.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:08 pm

Hi Tunees

As I make my way around the design house I'm slowly setting up systems for every room as usual. The art studio got moved into about one week ago and it is where I will be doing one of my vintage systems. While this might be a transient room because of my constant project schedule I wanted to do a setup that might be similar to one that anyone can do with a little tweaking. It's the kind of room that I can do art, bench work, relax, and jam.

The acoustical product for this room? You guessed it RoomTune ART

Stands and Platforms

Harmonic Springs

Technics SA-5360 receiver

Magnavox DVD

Ported paper speakers (test speakers)

Type2 cable

Picasso ICs

Element 42"

Dell computer

Dish network

The studio is 21' X 10.5' X 8.1' with a 21' X 17" X 8" beam that runs in the middle of the room (interesting).

After working on some art and tweaking the Technics the sound is already very fun to listen to and I know that it is way to soon to say that this is all it will do. The cables will need to settle for at least 2 more weeks before they start to shine. And the Platforms and stands are only just starting their journey. No doubt that this is going to be a system that will love old Stevie Wonder, Paul Simon, and the Beatles.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat May 01, 2010 8:58 am

Hi Guys

Sorry for the long delay of posting. As some of you know I'm working on a "Tunable Room" and needed to setup in an area that uses WIFI. Long story short, the server of this area isn't compatible with Vista. The new "Clear" saved the day and I'm back up and running.

I'll do my best to get caught up with emails and calls this week.

As Drewster says " jocolor "

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun May 02, 2010 6:10 am

Hi Zonees

Another system of mine is centered around the power of the vintage Pioneer SX 3400. I must take the time to tell you about this.

Drewster made a visit to Vegas a couple of weeks ago to see production and talk biz. While he was here he asked if I had hooked up the SX 3400 that was sitting on a table yet? Well Drewster sorry you missed the action but the SX is playing and sounding wonderful. Not just wonderful, but really wonderful.

You see Drewster is a secret spy for the "FTTA" (finding tunable toys association) I'm beginning to believe. I knew that this vintage minimalistic receiver was going to sound pretty good but Drewster described the difference between the Pioneer and the Technics stock to a tea.

Announcement !!!!!!

If your hunting for a great tunable vintage piece of equipment that represents the best of the oldie sound hop up on Ebay or where ever you go and buy a Pioneer SX 3400 receiver.

I'm looking to see if someone put tubes in this thing. And I'm not talking over damped tube sound either. This receiver sounds like some of the light weight amps that I've loved over the years.

When you pull the top off of the 3400 you find one of the best signal pathways ever from an older design layout out on a circuit board using an early version of a suspended board mounting system. You also find a transformer that is mounted to the side of a light weight frame. Who was this designer and can I have his number? And the big question, "why didn't anyone take the hint from this guy on how to build audio equipment?". I know that I'm going to want to tweak on this unit as time goes on but rarely do I find a piece stock that is so well done. The RCA receiver I reviewed a couple of years ago and this unit are in the same camp as far as shockingly easy units to tune out of the box. What truly blows my mind though is how did this beauty come and go through the years without being one of the components of merit in the press or did I miss something.

good call Drewster

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun May 02, 2010 11:53 pm

Thx, MG.

Oh yes, I remember the days, back in high school and college, of Pioneer, Technics, Sansui, and Yamaha receivers. And how each had a characteristic sound. Yamaha was sterile sounding, Pioneer the most "lush" sounding and easy to listen to, and the others in between. Ahhh, yes, and my first receiver, a Sherwood S7200...

And listening to Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd on Large Advent speakers in my best friend Doug's basement with the parachute hanging from the ceiling and the red light bulb pulsing with the music.... and drinking beer, and our tall purple plastic - - well, those were good times....

Of course, I am always on the lookout for inexpensive tunable toys. Like the dvd players I've been experimenting with, and the computer sources (though not so inexpensive). I spoke with Bill333 recently and he gave me some things to think about regarding digital file playback that I plan to look into too.


jocolor jocolor

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Tue May 04, 2010 7:25 am

tweaking of the 3400.

Looking at the chassis from the bottom side gives us another tweak that opens up the sound even more and brings in a nice quality of tonal rightness. The design has an easy to remove bottom plate that protects the circuit board from exposer. All one has to do is take off the screws holding the feet and a couple of other screws on the main frame and the bottom plate comes right off. The screw in feet or Harmonic feet (I'm going to make my own custom wood feet) can go back on to the bottom in the same holes that they were in. The highs almost instantly open up even more and the bottom end has started to drop yet another couple of notes.

Now for a little settling before moving forward.

Making our systems into mechanical music makers is a thrill that I don't think I will ever get over. It's like turning a normal car into a performance animal. The original is fine for the story line of history and that's a good thing (I love history) for shows and such, but when you want to get down to performance itself that's another ball game altogether.

Part of the thrill for me with vintage components is that I can tune parts that are extremely burnt in. You still have to keep them playing a long time to get things to open up but once they do open you can hear exactly what they are doing to the rest of the system.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:49 am

Hi folks please visit me on the thread "the tunable room". Where I hope to be spending most of my time on the zone over the next little while.

please ask sunny

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:52 pm

It's

been a full tilt tuning day at TuneLand Vegas, and I'm about beat but wanted to share something that I have been working on (on the side).

Back in the day when I use to modify all of my own drivers I came up with formulas that I applied to my favorite spots on the cones and frames. I'm not going to give a bunch of math wizardry here but there are certain things in instrument building and physics that can be done with almost any material that makes "sound sense". You rarely see these musical/audio truths and tricks shared in our industry but when they are applied magic happens.

yes, you may ask yourselves if I'm making super drivers?


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:49 am

Hi Gang

It's much fun to be the first one who gets to use the first products in a new line up. And even though the PZC may not be new coming out with the R series is.


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