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 My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:27 am

Hi there to Michael and my fellow tuners!!

It has been almost 1 year since the last i posted in tuneland !! It has been an amazing and yet a painful ride for me after comitting with Michael to proceed for a tunable room  Laughing .


The Tunable Room 10/21/2017

Going through the process of choosing types of wood and hearing the resonance during curing process was something that was very unfamiliar to me. But in the end with Michaels guidance things started to get in shape. Slowly choosing them and going through the whole process of curing and sanding was a real blast. But what got me excited was hearing each and every porcess and how the tone of wood starting to take shape was soo rewarding. All in all having a tunable room is one of the best investment i have ever made in my audio journey.

I have been running my system for the past seven days with around 3-4hours of listening sessions I can hear all sorts of changes occuring. Well i wouldn't be surprised as the wood pnales are starting to rest in place and relaxed and my dedicated lines (using Michaels cables) starting to run in im hearing a big change in sound!!

From an initial thin bass and pitchy midrange with harsh highs. To a full sounding bass going down lower and tuneful to a clear and less muddy midrange with much more smoother highs. I have tried using some of the front wall bolts to tune and it's definitely working up my stage. However as of now i wont do much on them as i need to get those doors installed which will be in hopefully next week and get them pressure zones stabilised before i can start to go full speed ahead on tuning those bolts.

What I am really surprised is using a slightly suspended floor has kept those vibrations running up to my equipments to a bare minimal and  I dont feel them creeping up to me how is this going to affect me later is still something that i will need guidance from Michael as i don't understand where are those vibes heading too Laughing . As of now im using a simple piece of chair that is from my dinning table. As it is lightweight and i can move them easily to get a better understanding on my listening  sweet spot area which im still figuring out. Do not get fooled by moving or tilting your head and hearing a better clear music or vocals means thats the correct sitiing position. As i move forward i may get some clearer part of the musical passage but i tend to loose the stage layout and imstrument placements.

The tuning journey has started once again for me and i will be periodically updating my findings and uploading pictures as i start to understand more on how the room is reacting to my speakers and equipments.  

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:02 am


Picture posted on Facebook

I'm sure the pictures to come are going to speak more than a thousand words each.

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Last edited by Michael Green on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rotelguy

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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:39 pm

Pictures Exclamation Pictures Exclamation

I'm dying to see the room Very Happy
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:33 am

Hi there my fellow tunees

As you guys know i have recently completed my dedicated room designed by Michael himself.
Over the past 1 week there has been some minor installation of the door and few side wall panels and now at last I can truly say my room is finally 100% completed. As of yesterday I have began my tuning journey and all i can say is if anyone here who has the space and is thinking of Michaels tunable room do not hesitate just go for it!!



It took me almost a day for me to get something that i have always wanted and yet could never achieve it due to space and lack of proper knowledge. Thank god for Michael's teachings and his room design i just cant believe what im hearing today. Its so surreal to hear now how big my soundstage is. Im not sitting at the backrow in a concert nor am i sitting right in front of the stage but  Im literally sitting on the stage and listening at the musicians, vocalist singing and playing thier instruments all around me Shocked .

On some recordings vocals are literally in front of my face just inches apart and on some recordings they are singing behind or in my head!! This is not something that i was prepared for as i thought it would take me some time before i could even come close to this level of listening pleasure.

Now looking at the room there is a learning curve on how to tune the front wall panels as i have 12 panels in total over at the front wall, 10 ceiling panels, 4 side wall panels(8 in total left and right side) and the SAM wall to tune. Call me lucky but after tightening the lower bolts of my front wall the stage moved up by 3 inches. Moving the SAM wall backwards by 12inches in total and BAMM i have a huge huge stage  Shocked . Now how did i get to this place? Im still trying to understand the interaction but over the years practicing what Michael has been preaching I kind of know a bit now  Laughing . All i did before this was to tap on all the panels while tightening and loosening the bolts. My voice changes significantly from lower full bodied tone to a higher and slightly midrangish tone.


front wall Tuning Panels

Base on this im able to gain some amount of understanding and insight on what is happening. So once i thightend all the 6 lower panels of my front wall the stage moved up. A slight shift of the vocals to the right was corrected by loosening the left side of the centre panel by doing this and now i have a voice that is centered.

Im using few of my reference songs to tune which have different layout when listened. Now using them again and again in defferent setups have given me a very good understanding. Using them as my reference in this current room is giving me a much deeper understanding on the recordings. I can hear more and understand more on how are the vocalist placed. Where exactly are the guitarist, pianist and drummer located. The presence of each instruments is so much more realistic and clear. Its more of i can "see" them rather than just "hear" them.

The tune journey has started all in all i have left my system to run in giving it a grand total of 62 hours of running in eversince i fired up my system from hyberbation mode lol. And have invested a total of 6 hours of serious tuning. Theres so much more to tune yet so little time hopefully next week i will be able to venture more and post up my findings. Michael has been so kind to design a tunable platforms for my equipments which is different than his previous versions and have yet to tune them. Using the platforms is something that i will work on at a later stage as i have a whole room to tune  Razz !.

Tj
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:37 am

Hi Rotel Very Happy  yes I have sent few pictures to Michael. Hopefully he will get them up soon. The room is a serious tool in this hobby and im so blessed to have my system sitting in this room. Thanks to Michael and Harold you guys are amazing!!!!


left side and right side, SAM Wall behind the listening position
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TTtim

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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:22 am

Amazing looking system Exclamation Far more logical than those pictures of systems that we all see that are not adjustable. What you have makes sense. Very nice Exclamation
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:44 pm

Hi there My fellow tunees

Just a small update here, been tuning the room by repositioning my speakers. Now this is an important step for every tunees Exclamation However things got a little tricky here for me. In view of the tunable panels surrounding the room I found that positioning them at the "best place" seems to alter based on how I tighten or loosen the bolts. Now this got me thinking where is the best place for my speakers to be placed at Question

Well the answer is not so simple here Laughing it will be based on what im looking for. Till now I have 2 sweet spots for the speakers. The first is 4.5' away from the front wall and 6' apart. I have a slight toe in for my speakers at around 10° on axis. My sitting/listening position is static and I use that as my reference point. Using these placement i get a huge stage with more bass reinforcement. Sound is much warmer and highs are sweet just nice no harshness of what so ever. Midrange is more pronounced but it doesnt feel fatigue. The overall listening pleasure that i get is very warm rich and relax presentation. The imaging of every instruments is slightly less defined but you can still make out where are all the locations of instruments and singers. I feel with the big image, dense and less defined gives you sense of a huge stage filling up every inch of my front stage with some space between each instrument layout. I like this kind of sound as its relaxing, inviting, cosy and intimate sounding very good for vocals or acoustics.

Now on to my second speaker placement which is 5' from the front wall and 6.25' apart with 15° on axis. As you can see the movement of my speaker is not much and the panels are still not "tuned" in(they are tuned for my previous speaker location). What i get here is a slightly lesser bass reinforcement and slightly clearer sounding. The highs began to give more extensions but midrange is more or less still the same. The instrument layout on the stage is more confusing i cant make out where are they located scratch . But the whole stage is filled up with music and very holographic Exclamation Exclamation This got me thinking on what has happened why such a big jump in stage presentation but not so much on each component of my tone. My next move was to start tuning the bolts from my front wall panels and 2 of my side wall bolts. What happened next shocked me Shocked . Crazy good imaging huge and holographic stage with such amazing presence. Now here's where I once again started experiencing that what is suppose to sound from the center of my stage is also coming form behind my head and as i move my head slightly forward approximately 2-3cm forward the imaging from the back of my head gets better and lesser from the front of my stage Shocked . However with this setting although the effect im experiencing is cool but the stage is still sounding confusing. As i started to tightened the bolt at my SAM wall now things started to lock in place. Imaging and instrument layout/placements at the front of my stage began to take shape!! With a slight adjustment over at the front upper side panels bolts things locked in. With this my stage is now 180° a semi parabolic stage with an exception of the center stage which is sharing its sound at the front of my stage and behind my head.

These 2 speaker settings although not so different in placement gave a total different presentation of music when played. Michaels tunable room design is shaping and affecting my stage layout by making the room work with my speakers and not the other way round. Which is not only bringing out more and more tuning instinct within me but a whole lot of musical enjoyment that i have ever had for over 20yrs!!

For this i had to pop in Roger Waters amazing recording Amused to Death!!! Track num 1,8 and 14 is my go to track. My god dogs barking flanking me from 2ft over the my right shoulder voices coming from the left side of my shoulders. Horses are running from left to right side of me which i can literally see them!! Vocals coming from the back and front of my head which left me spinning with amazement and pure joy !!

This is a new level of listening pleasure that im getting as of yesterday's session. Micahel said that it will only get better as the wood panels continue to rest and age Exclamation . I have a few questions for Michael. Firstly how do i retain all that im getting for my stage but move the vocals just slightly in fornt of my head and not to be persistent at the back of my head Question . I love the effect of it being at the back of my head but at times i just dont hear any vocals in front of me it is just tottaly behind my head Razz . Secondly I havent introduce any of your PZC mec and RT square pillows yet is there any provisional place that you can see that i can use them or sould I keep them for later time Question

Tj
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:06 pm

Hi Tj

Your first time around, I would start by taking 1 RT Square and explore what happens as you place it on your ceiling. Take me some more pictures of your ceiling and I will draw in some things to play with. In fact take me some more pictures of everything so I can do some placements with you.

study

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:46 pm

Good Day To you Michael and my fellow tunees

Yesterday I did a short listening session and decided to start my tuning journey over the ceiling. It was quite late at night nite and my system was fired up for about an hour before i started tuning. One thing i have been noticing for the past few days is when i listen immediately from a cold start the first 2 minuites of listening i find that the center stage vocals is in front of me 1' forward from the center plane of my speakers but after that it literally expands where the stage grows to a size that can only be described as big as a mommas A$@ Laughing . Here is when the vocals starts to move beyond me and gets locked on behind my head !
Its so crazy and amazing listening to my stage clearly expanding slowly which is something that i have never experienced before. Whats going in my mind is that the sound from my speakers is exciting the pressure zones and that is why the stage is getting bigger and bigger. To me this doesn't sound like the equipments are starting to run in from cold start as it won't occur that fast but i maybe wrong, what do you think Michael Question

Since it was late night the only tuning session i did was to apply one RT pillow 1' behind my head centred at the ceiling and parralel to my SAM wall. The RT pillow which was sitting between the top of my SAM wall and ceiling was secured at the ceiling using a small pin. After that i gradually moved the RT pillow forward to exactly above my head and lastly i moved them 1' in front of my head centred and pinned to the ceiling.

Listening to all 3 position basically didnt do anything to move the vocals that was previously behind me to in front of me. Instead what I experienced was that the instruments that was already in front of my stage (drums,guitar, piano) got pushed a littlle more forward and higher giving a sense of deeper stage and more space in between each instruments. This is the same findings i got for all 3 positions of RT pillow at the ceiling. When the RT pillow was directly above and 1' in front of me the highs was slightly affected. It sounded slightly subdued hence giving a much more fuller sounding to instruments. Also there's more transparency with slightly less attack on certain notes that i am familiar with. The sense of instruments flying and flanking me was not affected in any way.

The only effect that the RT pillow had towards the vocals sounding behind my head was it sounded not as clear as before. This was much more apparent when the RT pillow was placed directly above me in comparison to 1' in front. With this effect the vocals that is also coming front the front of my stage was not affected at all.

When it was 1' behind me there was no effect on the clarity of vocals that was coming behind my head but it gave a sense of more transparency towards the instruments at the front stage than in comparison to directly above and in front of my head. I never took much notice towards my bass as i was trying to understand more towards the pattern and direction of my pressure zones over at my ceiling and how it was affecting my instruments and vocal placements

As of now that's the amount of tuning i did for my ceiling. I still have a huge area to cover but I slowly will get it done !

Untill then take care

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:41 am

Hi Tj

I'm looking forward to exploring the tunable room with you after Drewster heads home. We're having a good time here and I can't believe it's the 26th already and Andy's flight is the 28th.

I did want to make one comment though

It's interesting playing a tunable system/room and compare it to a regular "stereo" setup. It teaches us about recordings "for real" instead of the limited playback the audiophile world has portrayed (that frontal in a box stage). Audiophiles play with the smallish frontal soundstage and make great to do about it, but recordings themselves are not a frontal science, nor are microphone patterns like we wish they would be in audiophilia land. We have frontal playback because we place speakers in front of us. Frontal listening is cool and is very fun to explore but this is only one point of view to listening. Having the Tunable Room allows us as playback listeners to go far beyond limited stereo. We can certainly dial in a frontal listening experience but now we are not limited to this only. Here's an example: when a singer sings close up and directly into the microphone the pressure fills the whole diaphragm element and fills up a much bigger space in the stage size wise, and front to back. We can 'tune' in that smaller voice to make it sound real size, to us, but that's not really the actual size of the pressure being picked up. The truth is the headphone soundstaging is actually more accurate as far as the all around effect that recordings have. Using the room as the speakers allows us to get that headphone feeling, but the tunable room can do the headphone stage much better than headphones themselves. Your room Tj will let you go anywhere within the soundstage and with any timbre you choose. The magic of this of course is learning your recordings all over again, plus the bonus of exploration deep into the recorded code. Once you get use to it you will be able to treat any part of the stage like as if you were turning your camera to any part of the recording and focusing in plus any lens effect you desire. You can have the typical stereophile-ish stage or any stage you learn how to create.

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:16 pm

Hi Michael and my fellow tuners

Exactly Michael thats what i want to do Exclamation Having the ability to control the stage at my own desire is what i truly want to achieve Smile . Listening to that frontal stage is one of the ways to listen and that's how i have been listening too for all these years. What I am getting today is a tottaly different ball game which at times places me in a very confusing state as i am unable to decipher certain notes on where is it coming from its like at times coming from behind and within my head and some notes are coming from the back left or right area of my room. This is truly an amazing listening experience as i tend to turn my head left and right or look at the door thinking someone is opening my room door.

What gets me confuse is previously on ceratin notes that i know gives more attack or dynamics but now these notes are sounding dorsile and some notes that sounded bland previously now is begining to pop out with more presence and energy Exclamation. Its like every recording that i have listened before and am familiar with is now sounding like a tottaly different recording. This is what gets me excited and happy to know that this room is breaking and seperating these recordings and is revealing a tottaly different presentation cheers .

However especially when I am listening to acoustics I can hear over my frontal centre stage there seems to be a null or gap which tends to put me off as it is like there is a hole at my centre stage but vocals are coming from within or behind my head which is actually centred but now its pulled 8' forward to where im sitting and the rest of the acoustic music seems to be either behind or in front of my speaker plane Shocked . I am wondering is this how it is suppose to be or is there an anomaly within my stage that needs to be addressed Question  One thing to note from the very beginning and that is after 2 days of intense adjustment and heavy lifting of my speakers, they have tottaly dissapeared from my room.

Whatever it is one thing for sure listening to such experience is a 1000× better than my previous frontal listening environment Exclamation. I cant possibly imagine going back to that frontal listening mode anymore. More and more of my friends are starting to open thier eyes on such listening experience. Yesterday I had a good friend of mine over for the second time. The look on his face was priceless as he was constantly turning his head behind to see if theres another speaker or turning to the left and right thinking something happening there. That one word he said in a sense of disbelief "this is not earthly possible" was what made my day cheers .

Tj
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:29 am

HI Michael and fellow tuners

Tuning over my ceiling has finally been completed Exclamation . As i started from the back left,right and centre moving to the mid and finally ending at front end of my ceiling showed that my stage, clarity, energy and transparency was much affected by using one RT pillow.

For bass i noticed that only at the mid and front region of my ceiling (left and right side) was affecting them in a positive way (clarity and deeper bass, tuneful and more extensions), as for the center side for middle and front region of my ceiling made my bass sounding weak, blurry and less tuneful but the back region of my ceiling placing RT pillow at the centre did give more energy and a bump at midbass region.

As for the highs and midrange both of them were affected in the same way when RT pillow applied at the left or right side at the back, mid and front end of ceiling. In all these areas it improved transparency and extensions of highs and lows but on the downside it brought a slight emphasise towards the midrange giving an awkward midrange glare which was very noticeable at the front end of the ceiling.

The awesome feeling of vocals spinning around my head was also affected when the Rt pillow was placed behind my listening position at the back region of my ceiling. It made things sounding neither behind me nor in front of me, it was like a long stretch of vocals moving from the centre of speaker plane up to the back of my head. It was neither an improvement nor pleasing to hear as it was not clear and sounded like it was out of phase Mad . Placing them at the mid region of the ceiling(left or right side) gave a slight increase in its clarity at the back of my head. Now this is interesting and i liked it not only towards the vocals but instruments placement at the sides were also affected giving more density and energy. As for the front end of ceiling it increased transparency and extensions of highs and bass but the density of each notes was reduced.

Looking at this i decided to apply 2 RT pillows over at the mid ceiling region at left and right side aligning them in parallel with my speakers. It seems like i placed the RT pillows at the first reflection point over at my ceiling however i placed them based on what i heard and not measuring them or using the mirror trick. Either way after applying them now i am hearing amazing clarity and presence with more energy. Looks like i have tapped on one of my many pressure zones in the room and brought out more of that energy towards my listening space Exclamation . The stage size is still preserved as before and the imaging is amazing and with life size piano in my listening space. Vocals sounds so scary and is spinning my head more than ever. The bass is tight,deep and tuneful but still feeling that its lacking by a tad in energy if compared to what im getting from my mids and highs.

I will let them rest and listen to them in a few days time. As i have learned that after a period of continuous listening what sounds good may only end up sounding different but not better. This settling time will also give some time to stabilise those newly tapped pressure zones. I can see a pattern here with my ceiling and will have to start drafting out on a piece of paper to see which are my "HOT" zones and which are my "COLD" zones. Untill then happy tuning Very Happy .

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:51 am



Greetings tjbhuler cheers

Your new room and results you are getting are amazing Shocked

You are now truly carrying the flag for the Tune -- Congratulations Exclamation

Sonic read what Mr Green said about recordings and I got a couple of questions for him over on my thread (so as not to interrupt the fine narrative here.).

Sonic

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:13 am

Hi Sonic

Thanks for the comments Very Happy and yes i will carry the Tunable flag high up cheers . The tuning is still in its infacy stage but its the process of going through that im more than ever excited and eager to experience.

I am beginning to understand more now on what Michael has been talking all these years. As for understanding more on recordings there are many ways to look at it and i am sure Michael will answer you questions. All i can say i am begining to hear more and understand how they are placed around the stage better. Its an expereince that im yet to learn and understand more Smile .

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:51 am

Tj said

"I am wondering is this how it is suppose to be or is there an anomaly within my stage that needs to be addressed Question One thing to note from the very beginning and that is after 2 days of intense adjustment and heavy lifting of my speakers, they have tottaly dissapeared from my room."

mg

Relearning recordings on such a big scale redefines playback for us. One of my first goals (in choosing what is real) is making those speakers disappear. When they are gone this means your pressure zones have taken over and your room is now your speaker. More, many more, revelations are on their way!

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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:03 am

Tj says

"I will let them rest and listen to them in a few days time. As i have learned that after a period of continuous listening what sounds good may only end up sounding different but not better. This settling time will also give some time to stabilise those newly tapped pressure zones. I can see a pattern here with my ceiling and will have to start drafting out on a piece of paper to see which are my "HOT" zones and which are my "COLD" zones."

mg

Zoning your room will help you learn a lot. It may not prove to be permanent but will help you learn each area of the space and it's importance. When I do this (concerning the laminar flow) I use Sound Shutters to give me direction, and Mini tunes and mini block boxes to equalize the space within my patterns.

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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:32 am

Hi Michael and my fellow tuners

I have been once again on a rampage to tune those pressure zones. As I look at the placements of SAM wall, sitting position and speakers, I remembered they were all placed at the transition point of these pressure zones which I initially voiced when the room was still empty. I then tuned the room up by optimising the front and side tunable wall panels but once I started to introduce speakers and equipemts to the room the PZ have reshaped! So with all the tools(PZC/RT) available I have decided to re-voice my room. Since I have already done the ceiling I decided its time to work on my floors! Yes something that I have thought of but never worked on.

I started kneeling down and voicing to feel those resonance within me and hear my voice to worked up a pattern. My first impression is that the resonance within my body is felt more over the floors than in comparison to ceiling  Exclamation .
Moving from the front to back of my room showed the front end has lots of pressure built up which is more than the back end. Voice sounded dull and resonating up to my chest level. However as I progressively moved to the center of my front end the pressure started to clear up but moving to the right corner front end showed pressure building up again. Moving towards the mid-section of my room the pressure built up was getting lesser but as I reached the mid-section of my room where the ceiling is at the lowest point there was a bump in the pressure zone. This I can correlate to the shape of my ceiling as it is sloped to the lowest point at the mid section of my room which then slopes up to the back end. Also the side wall panels are not all the way down to the floors which is giving a small enclosed space at that area. Looking at this it becomes clear on how the PZ are shaping in my room  Exclamation .

Intresting part with the SAM wall the pressure zone starts to built up in front of it and slowly degrades behind it but overall still more than the front center mid-section of my room(in between speakers amd my sitting position). Knowing this, the approach I used is to place the PZC-FS, MEC and RT pillows where i felt the pressure zone was the most.



From here you can see the front area where the pressure zone built up are at the most. Now i applied them one by one. First was by working my way over at my front wall and slowly progressing towards the midsection and in front of my SAM wall. Applying 3 Rt pillows at the far upper right and left corner and at the center top front wall gave a much cleaner and clearer sound, its like a veil was lifted off from the stage. However the soundstage width and height shrunk slightly in comparison to before. I am not too concern for this as my stage is still big and to get it back is not hard, adjusting the tension of the tunable panels can bring it back. Next was the upper mid bass I felt it was slightly more than before but still lacking especially at the lower octaves this could also be due to the speakers limitation. The highs are much better there's more extensions and sweeter sounding with better timing. Midrange sounded beautiful with a very nice bloom. The 3 dimensional feel is still the same as before not affected in any way.

Proceeding to apply the PZC-MEC and PZC-FS  at the floor area made a huge difference  Exclamation  There was a significant bump in bass output this caught me off guard as I never expected it could affect this much  Shocked . Details heard significantly lesser on guitar strings which now sounded fat and thick. Finger tapping on the strings are lesser than before. Drums and snares took a much darker tone. I felt everything sounded heavier and slower. Details on voices and lips puckering sounded slightly subdued. This is a big change on the overall sound which sounded dark"ish". I removed the MEC and brought the FS back to my previous setting. I got back the sound that was getting previously. My instinct was telling me that i need to re-tune them again without working on the wall panels immidiately !

Next was to move my PZC-FS slightly more forward by 6" bringing it nearer to my speakers with a lesser angle of 30° toe in from 45° and placing back those MEC but this time spacing it away from the FS by an extra 7" with a 20° toe in. Listening once again with this setting brought out a significant bump in volume and gave a much better presentation of my stage with bigger sounding vocals. The girth on vocals and instruments increased slightly more piano sounded bigger, vocals sounded much bigger and bolder. Guitar strings sounded full and not as thick as before and details this time was retained. The whole stage now sounds "filled" up but cramped with minimal spacing between each instruments. I was expecting the stage to grow and expand but it seems the dimension was still the same.

This is nice but it doesn't give me a good presentation of my stage. Voicing and re-voicing once again at the front wall showed that the PZ's have reduced from the front corners of the ceiling and floor which seems to have shifted them to mid-section of my room but more towards the left and right side of my walls. The center of my listening space was more or less the same as before. Very interesting  Exclamation  Im beginning to understand what is happening im decongesting the front area of my listening space PZ and moving them to the mid section of my room but its moving along the side walls. Now I am confused on why is the center area of my listening space still the same  scratch . Could it be due to the equipment layout which is naturally reducing the PZ at the center area  Question  Maybe Michael could chime in to explain this  Question



Moving on to the mid-section of the room I started once again addressing them using the same way as I did for the fronts and that is by looking up at my ceiling and re-adjusting the RT pillows that I initially applied. I moved them forward by another 4" both left and right side. This brought out some of the instruments forward at the side areas of my listening space but not much at the center plane and made each note sounding clearer and more defined. Imaging improved and stage height grew slightly more. Looking at the floors re-viocing them got me wondering since the pressure zones is more at the floor region in comparison to the ceiling will it affect as big as what happened to the front side of my room? True enough the PZ build up was significantly more at the left and right side of the floor and it moved nearer to where my sitting position is. Next step was to apply PZC-MEC over the left and right side wall of my sitting position. This brought out better details and fantastic imaging. However the width and the sound that usually flanks me started to reduce. Removing them got me back those flanking sound from the speakers that have been giving me the "surround" feel but the imaging was lesser. Once again i moved those PZC-MEC back by another 5" along the side walls, this time I angled them to face the ceiling of the opposite side. The spatial sound between each instruments improved and imaging was much better than before. Some of the instruments that previously was sounding behind my speakers have now moved forward by few inches which initially I thought it sounded like they were coming from the speakers but in fact they were in front of the speakers!

Currently the room is singing along with my speakers better than before and it has filled up the space left and right side of me from speaker to the sides of my sitting position. But Im still not getting a good center front to back spacing of instruments. Vocals over the back of my head is now pronounced and fixed. Which is amazing but it seems to be disconnected from the center front stage. All I need is a way to separate the center frontal side of my stage and bring it nearer infront of me to fill in that gap. If this happens I might not leave my room forever!!!! The PZC- MEC's will be moving around the room as this is just a way for me to understand and map out my PZ's that is shifting as I move the PZC's around. I was suppose to use RT-pillows but I cant seem to find the rest of them lol! Which I suspect is in another box that I havent unboxed yet. But for now i will leave them there as it is giving a very spacious, grand and involving sound Very Happy .

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:44 pm

Hi TJ,

That is quite an amazing adventure you are having with your tunable room!  Very Happy  Thanks for sharing your process with us. It's exciting to see your tuning progress as you refine the sound of your room. Seems like you really have the hang of the tuning tools, and your listening skills are very well developed cheers .  I would love to have a tunable room of my own Cool but it won't work here in my small Ecuador apartment Sad. I do have a brand new pair of the Rev6 Signature speakers, so that is my tuning adventure right now Twisted Evil Wink .

Please continue to advise us on TuneLand of your experiences. We are enjoying them vicariously and learning from them as well.  Smile  What a Face


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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:34 am

Hi Michael and my fellow tuners

Sorry for not coming up here as often as I wanted too. Have been busy for the past few weeks. Also part of the delay was due to my poor computer graphic skills which I am trying to use as I want to paint a better picture on what I'm expereincing here, so had to take some lessons to learn on how to use them  Laughing .


Hi Drewster thanks for popping in. Love those Rev6 siganture ! I'm currently learning the room more but the Rev6 is something that I would love to get my hands on Smile.

For the past few weeks I have been giving a full run in session for my system, room and ears to get accustomed to the sound. I have  currently removed 2 of the PZC-MEC that I previously applied over at the front wall which was placed beside the PZC-FS and began to focus on my front wall panels. Now a little more description on my front wall panels, I have a total of 12 panels its a 2'×4' panel 6 at the top and 6 below. Each of them can be controlled individually by using it's center bolts which are made out of brass material it's also equipped with its matching washer. Now after doing a provisional tune up last month for the front panels I decided that since it has rested well it was time for them to be re-tuned.

Before that my soundstage currently is crazy and I mean it in a good way Smile. Ceiling, side walls and front wall boundaries cease to exist. Music flows in every direction, eventhough instrument locations are not precisely located but I feel its more accurate when listening. The dynamics and attack gives a sense of realism with better presence. Vocals most of the time is over at the back of my head but at times it will be in my head or slightly infront of me (something like a headphone effect).
All this seems to be fun and joyful to hear but after referencing myself with Michael using Amused to Death album by Roger Waters I realized that I have soo much more to work on. All this time listening to this album gave me lots of goosebumps but never in my life have I realized how much I was missing out when Michael mentioned to me whats he is hearing. It just shows where I have been all this while  Embarassed . So knowing this I was having a soundstage as below when I was referencing myself to Michael.



Now looking at this I guess its ok to listen with this presentation but here in tuneland once you have acquired the tunes, missing out on other parts of the recording is something that eats me. So once again after removing the PZC-MEC the stage collapsed slightly but I gained more depth and dimension. While letting it rest for few hours I started thinking on each and every one of those front panels. I know what it is doing roughly but sadly not fully. This is because initially when I was tuning the panels my system was just running in after being in a long hiatus. Also during that period the dedicated lines using MG cables was still new and that was also running in too. Now it's well over 1 month in, I can still hear some midrange harshness and glare but its much better now.

So previously tuning the panels gave me some basic understanding which is by tightening the panels it will bring out more highs and midrange which gives more definition with a slight edge. Relaxing the panels will bring out more body, bigger girth and more midbass warmth . Also by tightening one side and relaxing the other side I can move the center to the left or right. But other than that the effect towards the stage is still not clear to me  Rolling Eyes .

Keeping my SAM wall and sitting position static as my reference point I started tuning the lower panels sweeping from left to right and making my way up to the top panels (left to right). Using my favourite song by Jennifer Warner I started tightening the first lower panel at the left. Now I know not everyone may follow on how big of an impact these panels are imposing or what exactly are they doing but I will try my best to describe it in detail. On my initial impression I couldn't discern much difference but as I continued tightening them I realized that the stage was getting slightly skewed and certain piano notes was moving up in height giving a very awkward presentation and listening expereince. So after a few minuites of listening I decided to leave them and continue to tightend the 2nd lower panel and so forth to the right without loosening them. It started to give me better understanding on how the panels are affecting my stage. By tightening them I'm able to move the stage higher and clear up all the smearing or fog like impression at the lower end of bass and midrange. By doing this also the dimension and separation between each instruments starts to reduce. It is more 2D with better imaging and clarity but less emotion, dimension and presence. However I sense more pressure working up at my sitting position as I could feel it in my ear. Working my way to the lower right end side gave the same effect. Now with all  the lower panels tightened up the stage is much higher than before reaching up to ceiling, width is still there and some instruments are still projecting out nearing to the sides of me but the overall stage sound is very 2D like with some vocals still running around my head. Theres a big gap between the center plane of my speaker to my sitting position.

Moving towards the upper panels once again tightening them from left to right. This time the stage height started to lower down till it was as before. But now the overall presentation is even more 2D with good imaging but less spacing between each instruments. Vocals have now moved away from me, more forward nearing to the center plane of my speakers. The sense of the center stage running around my head is not there anymore  Mad . Everything seems to sound in front(at the center plane of my speaker) with occational flanking of musical notes towards the sides of my listening position. Overall less body and girth more clinical sounding, very 2D'ish and confined between the boundaries of my walls also some of the notes are beginning to hear from the speakers itself. Interesting  Exclamation never did I expect such transformation in stage presentation just by getting them all tensioned up  Laughing .

With all the panels tightend up, the sound is not good at all. So I started backtracking my steps to untwist those bolts gradually.  Starting from the lower panels I worked once again from left to right. Un-twisting them patiently till I found both girth and clarity are balanced. By looking at girth and clarity I am able to get better results as a whole. Moving up to the top panels I did the same thing but this time I was careful to untwist the center panels as I find them to be the most sensitive affecting the whole stage. Twisting them in mm can make a significant difference which at times doesnt make it easy if you dont have good fine hand skills like me  Wink  . After good 2 hours of un-twisting and re-tuning those bolts I have finally worked up a soundstage that is much better than before  cheers .



As of today this is how the stage is. I know by working up the SAM wall I could further improve them more especially the center of my listening space but for now I would take this step cautiously as I feel the pressure in my left and right ears are balanced and front to back pressure is more or less stable. I will let them settle down and do a second listen in a day or two before I make my next step. As I see it, the front tunable panels are affecting every aspect of the sound spectrum, stage layout and dimension. Having just the front wall done would be a fantastic move for anyone who are keen to be in sync with the tunes  Razz . Its still a long way for me as I have my side panels to work on and the ceilings too. Not to forget the possible combinations of speaker to my sitting position and SAM wall distance to my sitting position and backwall that I will need to try out.

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:01 pm

Hi there Michael and my fellow tuners,

After giving a good 2 days of settling period and listening time for my latest tuning session over the front wall panels its maintining as what I listened and stated on my previous posting. Soundstage seems to be spaced out well in to the room extending from wall to wall and front to back. However at certain recordings I am getting a slight skew or shift at center image especially when I move my head forward towards the center plane of my speaker.

This is something that I used to ignore previously not taking it seriously due to my previous system was setup in my living room.  Well now in view of everything is at my disposal I needed to persue this issue deeper  Exclamation  What im saying here is when I listen, initially my focus goes towards listening the PZ around me. I feel for those PZ surrounding my head sensing if the "force" aka PZ is balanced within me  Laughing . At times when you move your head theres is a tendency for an image to shift or skew drastically giving more pressure on one side as in comparison to other. Well this will not be well appreciated when an image producing is at the left or right side of the stage but when the recording is producing a musical note or vocals at the center of the soundstage especially vocals you can at times hear there is an imbalance steering more towards either side. To me this tends to give me a more messed up or slightly blurry image.

In my current settings I have managed to get a fairly average balanced stage in my room. However when I'm in my sitting position as I move my head 1' forward, I tend to hear a shift especially vocals which is more towards the left. When I move my head around 5-6" around my actual listening position the center PZ is well balanced with a fairly good forward image projection upto around my head. Looking at this my understanding is that the pressure zone 1' in front of me, over the right side is stronger then the left which is causing an image to shift to the left. Voicing out this area doesnt seem to give me any audible change. Well my interpretation could be wrong (Hopefully Michael could correct me on this).



The tune instinct is telling me to start working on my side panels which are also tunable. Now from my previous excersie I know that if I tightened the bolt the image will move away from that area and if I loosen it the image will be more pronounced at the panel. So my next move was to tightened the left and loosen the right panel. This is to move the left side image shift 1' infront of me towards the center. Listening one more time gave a slight image shift more towards the center. Great its working as what I expected. Now moving my head back to my usual listening place the center image did not seem to be affected at all. Amazing the panels are working towards that particular PZ this is super cool  Exclamation . Once again listening with my head at usual placement and slowly moving my head forward seems to be much better and less skewed however still I can feel that its not well balanced.

As I began to tightened the panel more on the left and loosen the right panels the usual listening position image is now starting to shift too  Mad . This is not good as it is affecting my actual listening position PZ too. After some small adjustement I managed to get them balanced as previously. Now at this point was there any improvments  Question  Well yes, it was giving a better sense of my center imaging and details. The spacings behind the center image was also better separated. Knowing this and the importance of getting the PZ balanced, my attention now has gone up to the ceiling  Exclamation . They are also adjustable which can be tuned by tightning those bolts individually. These panels have also been treated the same way as my front and side panels too. The tuning capability is also the same and can be heard noticeably.

Before that a little description of my ceiling I have 6 panels covering the front and back part of my ceiling making it a total of 12 panels. The front 6 panels have 1 bolts on each panels making it 6 bolts in total that is located at the center of the ceiling panels. As for the back ceiling panels there are also 6 panels with 2 bolts at each panels. Why are there 2 bolts at each panel for the back and 1 bolt at the front ceiling panels  Question  This is because the back ceiling panels are longer than the fronts. Now those bolts that are installed at the ceiling panels are not only meant for its tuning capability but also as security measure as the panels will not fall off from the bracings that they are attached by using thick long screws at all 4 corners and mid section of the panels. The ceiling is not that high and they are sloped going from 8.75' from the front wall to 7.85' at the center and sloped up again to the back of my room at around 9.2'. Why is it configured as such is due to the beam which is running at the lowest point of my ceiling mid area across the room. Which Im prohibited to touch as it may compromise the strutural integrity of my dwelling!



Since the 1' forward of my listening position is at the front ceiling region so logically I looked at the front region. Working my way at the center 2 of my front ceiling panels I started to tightened the bolts at the left side hoping that the image will move more to the center but to no avail the image density and stage got affected big time. The stage got lowered and image density sounded hollow and sucked in. Un-doing them got me back to my previous setting. So I looked over at my back ceiling and worked on the 2 center panels doing the same by tightening the left side. This time I got something that shocked me  Exclamation . Soundstage moved forward towards me by at least 1.5' and the spacings between each instruments grew even more. This step has brought out or should I  say unleashed another tuning aspect that I didnt know existed. Its seems like its working like the SAM wall but also affecting the presence more. Now did it solve my initial problem well nope but damm it brought out something that caught me by surprise  Laughing . The stage height and front to back spacing has increased. Presence is felt more giving me a "walk in stage" feel, yet preserving image density. Moving my head forward gives me a feel that im passing the center vocals/instruments which then locates behind me. The feel and sense of the drummer when at my usual sitting position is far in front of me but when moving my head forward I sense nearing the drummer without loosing the image presence of the drummer.

I tried this on another recording, the same thing happened but it was not that pronounced. However as of now I can appreciate more towards intrument spacings and understand deeper towards different type of recordings! I am definately on to something bigger than  what I was trying to go for initally. However I still need to address that image shift which is definately not affected by the ceiling  Very Happy .

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:31 am

It is so awesome to be referencing with Tj. I have my tunable room up and running and can envision what Tj is talking about. I love tuning regular rooms but in a tunable room there's a power of possession that takes over with each recording.


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