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 Lattis system

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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:25 pm

rotelguy wrote:
Hi Lattis welcome to TuneLand

I know that some Tunees that live in 220 zones have bought converters for their Magnavox players. I'll look to see who, but I know Hiend1 is one of them. Again welcome to the family!


Hi
Thank you! :-)

study I can ask Hiend1.
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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:56 pm

I have tried to tune the speakers some weeks now and I am more satisfied now with the sound than before. I have removed so much demping and rubber that I can find. I have replaced the poly fill with some sheep woll, I like the sound better with sheep woll.
The crossovers in Kharma is demped with some stuff, its imposible to remove.
Why they do that with the crossovers I do not understand. :-(
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Sonic.beaver



Posts : 2144
Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:50 am


Greetings Mats

A couple of reasons why some manufacturers seal their crossovers -- a misguided attempt to damp them and (more likely) to prevent the values of the components being discovered.

Sonic wonders if you will consider separating your Audio Analogue transport out of its massive box and that thick faceplate?

There must be lots of "blockage" in there!

Sonic

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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:13 am

Sonic.beaver wrote:

Greetings Mats

A couple of reasons why some manufacturers seal their crossovers -- a misguided attempt to damp them and (more likely) to prevent the values of the components being discovered.

Sonic wonders if you will consider separating your Audio Analogue transport out of its massive box and that thick faceplate?

There must be lots of "blockage" in there!

Sonic

Hi Sonic
Thank you
Yes I consider to separating the transport out of its massive box.
I think I will try this mod to day or to morrow. ;-)




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Michael Green
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Join date : 2009-09-12
Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:29 am

Very Happy

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Sonic.beaver



Posts : 2144
Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:08 am


Hello Mats

Have you freed the transport from its box and thick faceplate?

Sonic

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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:48 am

Sonic.beaver wrote:

Hello Mats

Have you freed the transport from its box and thick faceplate?

Sonic


Hi Sonic
Yes I have :-)
The soundstage sounds more relaxed and with deeper bass.
I want to try something else under the toroidal transformer and the transport, to day I use LTR Tuning Blocks under the transport.
I cant use LTR tuning block under the toroidal transformer, the wires its to short.

Do you have exsperience with passive preamplifiers?
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Sonic.beaver



Posts : 2144
Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:14 am


Greetings Mats

Yes, Sonic has some experience from years ago with passive preamps. What would like to know?

Please post a pix of what the your "freed up" Audio Analogue CDP looks like.

Three suggestions if Sonic may:

1. Check the balance of the transport when it is playing CDs -- the ideal is that when you gently touch it during music play, there should no vibration felt, at most very tiny vibration and certainly no rattling noises etc.

2. Sonic found placing three Harmonic Springs (from Mr Green) under toroidal transformers good. As the bottom of the transformer is not flat you have to position the springs till the transformer is level. It should also be stable and not shaky when you push it gently.

3. Try a Low Tone Redwood block or other treated wood from Michael on top of the transformer.

Sonic

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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:15 am

Sonic.beaver wrote:

Greetings Mats

Yes, Sonic has some experience from years ago with passive preamps. What would like to know?

Please post a pix of what the your "freed up" Audio Analogue CDP looks like.

Three suggestions if Sonic may:

1.          Check the balance of the transport when it is playing CDs -- the ideal is that when you gently touch it during music play, there should no vibration felt, at most very tiny vibration and certainly no rattling noises etc.

2.          Sonic found placing three Harmonic Springs (from Mr Green) under toroidal transformers good.  As the bottom of the transformer is not flat you have to position the springs till the transformer is level. It should also be stable and not shaky when you push it gently.

3.          Try a Low Tone Redwood block or other treated wood from Michael on top of the transformer.  

Sonic


I have sent pictures to Michael to day.



Has a passive preamplifier several advantages in terms of sound and tuning?

Thank you for the suggestions.

When its playing CDs the transport has a vibration felts and it have rattling nois.
I see no I can remove more mass from the transport. There is more metal around the transport.
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Sonic.beaver



Posts : 2144
Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:56 am


Hello Mats

To your points:

Sonic and audio friends have tried passive preamps or driving power amps with CD players equipped with analog line level volume controls and even fabricating our volume control boxes using quality pots.

In every case, a passive device caused the sound to go thin and lifeless with a serious lack of dynamics. In some cases the volume control also had to be turned to the last 1/3 of its travel to get any decent playback volume. Some of the passive devices we experimented with were susceptible to radio frequency interference. To this day Sonic has not heard a system with a passive device sounding better than an integrated amp or an active preamp/power amp combination.

What did work were some good CD players with designed-in output volume controls. Those worked well (good frequency range and dynamics) but the drawback was you had no convenient switching capability for other sources like radio, tape and phono.

As for the rattling transport, try shimming one of its three or four mounting feet with a piece of paper or thin card, going through the three or four mounting corners and seeing this reduces or stops the vibration.

As for removing more metal, this will free up the Tune but the vibration problem can only be solved by levelling or bolting the transport down to a chassis to lock the device. When Sonic had those vibration problems, simply remounting the transport back in the metal chassis of my Sony/Philips/Samsung DVD player stopped the rattling. The mounting screws did not have to be tightened, just finger tight was enough to stop the vibrations. Looking back, I could have got a piece of treated wood from Michael and mount the transport on that.

Do let me know of the progress you make with the CD player Very Happy

Sonic

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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:41 pm

Sonic.beaver wrote:

Hello Mats

To your points:

Sonic and audio friends have tried passive preamps or driving power amps with CD players equipped with analog line level volume controls and even fabricating our volume control boxes using quality pots.

In every case, a passive device caused the sound to go thin and lifeless with a serious lack of dynamics. In some cases the volume control also had to be turned to the last 1/3 of its travel to get any decent playback volume. Some of the passive devices we experimented with were susceptible to radio frequency interference.  To this day Sonic has not heard a system with a passive device sounding better than an integrated amp or an active preamp/power amp combination.

What did work were some good CD players with designed-in output volume controls.  Those worked well (good frequency range and dynamics) but the drawback was you had no convenient switching capability for other sources like radio, tape and phono.

As for the rattling transport, try shimming one of its three or four mounting feet with a piece of paper or thin card, going through the three or four mounting corners and seeing this reduces or stops the vibration.

As for removing more metal, this will free up the Tune but the vibration problem can only be solved by levelling or bolting the transport down to a chassis to lock the device.  When Sonic had those vibration problems, simply remounting the transport back in the metal chassis of my Sony/Philips/Samsung DVD player stopped the rattling. The mounting screws did not have to be tightened, just finger tight was enough to stop the vibrations. Looking back, I could have got a piece of treated wood from Michael and mount the transport on that.

Do let me know of the progress you make with the CD player Very Happy

Sonic  



Hi Sonic
Thank you!  Very Happy
To day I have removed the metal chassis on the cd-player again, and the screws under the CD transport chassis are know just snugg. I use 4 smal wood feets under the CD transport. Rattling is know removed. Vibrations is still there but it is leveled out across entire CD transport.
I have bypassed the binding-post on the speakers Very Happy And I try some brass cones from Walker Audio under the speakers with out the pucks! I want to try brass cones from Michael also.
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tjbhuler



Posts : 240
Join date : 2015-02-13

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Hi there Mats

Love your approach towards addressing the "mess of mass". I have not had the time nor the guts to work them on my system Laughing but I will for sure move to this direction one day.

Top tuning will be a great approach for you to dial it in once you have removed most of the chasis. Im sure Michael, Sonic and others who have done it will be there for you Very Happy .

Tj
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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:42 am

tjbhuler wrote:
Hi there Mats

Love your approach towards addressing the "mess of mass". I have not had the time nor the guts to work them on my system Laughing  but I will for sure move to this direction one day.

Top tuning will be a great approach for you to dial it in once you have removed most of the chasis. Im sure Michael, Sonic and others who have done it will be there for you Very Happy .

Tj

Hi Tjbhuler
Thank you  Very Happy
I understand you way you not have the guts, I was very skepical to do this on my system. After I read much on the old Tuneland and this new Tuneland forum I understand whay many off this tweaks works.
Its very nice system and listening room you have Tjbhuler!
I have a friend that use Audio Research 210 mono blocks, preamp and CD player. Sounds very nice!
I love the sound of Sonus Faber! I have heard Sonus Faber different models many times here in Bergen I live.
Have a nice day.  Very Happy
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Sonic.beaver



Posts : 2144
Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:33 am


Greetings tjbhuler and Mats

Nice we can chat on this Forum:!: I guess each Tunee has to find the extent of the Tune that makes the most sense -- and practicality. While Sonic is open to the idea I could have done something wrong, I found with my attempts of the more extreme levels of tuning there was a constant circle of tuning (which produced good sound), followed by things falling out of tune then needing adjusting again. I found this to become vexing plus Sonic had concerns over the safety aspect of all the equipment and their mains power feeds exposed.

I have now got my system mechanically and acoustically stable, requiring little re-tuning, yet allowing Sonic to reap some of the power of the Tune. To adjust for the variability recordings there is my trusty Japan Victor Company Nivico SEA-10 equaliser.

Sonic is most impressed with your room tjbhuler:cheers:

Sonic
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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:50 am

Someone who has experience with removing mute transistors in cd players?
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Sonic.beaver



Posts : 2144
Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:17 am


Hi Mats

Please elaborate what it is you aim to do. Something broke down?

Sonic

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Lattis



Posts : 20
Join date : 2016-11-09
Location : Norway

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:33 pm

I have done more tuning to day. I love it  Laughing
Removed more plastic/aluminum from the cd-player on the cd-tray.
My big surprise, I thought it gave a nice improvement. Very Happy

I dont know how the AC is in USA but here in Norway it is recommended not to use ground for the amplifiers. I disconnected the ground on the power cord, and I removed much demping material and rubber. There was no doubt better sound !

And just for fun I removed the faceplate on the amplifier.
It is some improvement. I want to make wood faceplate during the next week.
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:38 am

Great to see you guys having fun Exclamation

Sonic said

"I guess each Tunee has to find the extent of the Tune that makes the most sense -- and practicality."

Laughing

I disagree Laughing I think every Tunee should have a tunable room and system at least once in their listening life and then see if we can ever go back to something short of the whole thing Laughing

Going part way is fun, but it's nothing like going all the way. The jump between the best of high end audio vs all tunable is like comparing two different hobbies. I appreciate going part way, but as I got the tunable room up and running it was crazy funny going from that to my other systems. Not that my other areas sound bad, they don't, in fact they sound pretty nice but not even close to having total control. Like I said, it's really not even the same ballgame.

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Sonic.beaver



Posts : 2144
Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Lattis system   Yesterday at 6:58 am


Another good point from Mr Green -- that " The jump between the best of high end audio vs all tunable is like comparing two different hobbies....... it's really not even the same ballgame." Very Happy

Greetings Mats

Might Sonic say a bit about my experience with earthed (grounded) and floating earth (no ground) audio systems?

How would you describe the change in sound you got when you floated the earth of your system?

Thing is each time I floated the ground of my system the difference I heard was a difference in sound but not an improvement. The overall frequency response did not change but what I got was a sort of “whitened” internal tone colours and a loss of the “round/dimensioned impact” of sound. There was an improvement in PRAT (pace, rhythm and timing) which made the music sound like it was going a bit faster.

With the system grounded, the music sounded darker, heavier and a bit slower by comparison. Over the long term, the floating earth set up sounded artificial and the grounded system more correct.

I asked an engineer why there was a difference and his explanation (which I hope I am conveying correctly) is “a lot of audio devices are designed to use the ground to establish the reference Zero point for signals. If that ground shifts then waveforms that take reference from that Zero will drift about.”

There is also the safety aspect to consider too especially for us who have equipment with covers removed and exposed electrical connections.

Sonic

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