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 Robert Harrison's Tunable System

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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:11 pm

Always great to have two systems in my book. They help me learn a ton going back and forth between the two signatures. I have always heard something in one that I don't hear in the other and it helps my personal learning curve quite a bit.

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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:49 pm


Sonic is watching like a hawk Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:26 am


Hey Michael, please elaborate on what you said "(Mike Vans Evers) did a much heavier form of tuning......Mike was one of those early on who sent us some of his products to see if it fit in with the tuning big picture. It still leaned a little on the too much side for us"

Sonic went back into my collection of Positive Feedback and read about Mike (why are they all named Michael...?) and saw that his products involved a variety of different woods and brackets.

How do you define "heavier form of tuning" and "leaned a little on the too much side for us".

Is this a criticism of a competitor by you or some idea that even tuning can go too far? I mean how do you quantify "heavier form" and "on the too much side" in relation to the Tune? Tell us what does this mean in terms that we tunees can understand.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:41 pm

Hi Sonic, sure no problem.

First off let me say again "this is what high end audio should be about". It shouldn't be about flaceplates covering electronic components. It should be about the signal and how it gets through the audio chain and what happens when it hits the air and what happens after we hear that a recording still doesn't sound right. If the late 80's early 90's could have continued this would be a thriving industry.

Here's where the tweak world in general gets in trouble so as to not pick on any one person or sound like I am being negitive about their findings or a know it all.

When I take a 22 guage piece of wire and pass a signal through it anywhere along the chain it pretty much reaches the full tone needed from top to bottom if handled correctly. A higher guage absolutely starts losing information and even 22 G at times can do this. (ask me about the reality of the "skin effect") What does this sound like? The image gets smaller is the first thing to be noticed. If you get side tracked and go after focus (while the stage is shrinking) and can not back up and see a big picture you have gone too far. Doesn't matter what material we are talking about, you have gone too far and information is getting squeezed out and replaced with distortion. Same thing holds true when you don't use enough material.

Why did I start talking about cable? Because this is where it all begins once the signal goes from the microphone diaphragm. From that magic moment you now have 3 parts, mechanical, electrical and acoustical. Any one of these parts gets into distortion trouble really fast and is the biggest problem in our hobby.

the biggest problem in this hobby Question 



We still do not understand the signal, and we do not understand distortion.

With musical instruments we get it, it's either too much or too little. But in the hobby we have created we are starting way off center and making up blind technologies to support these myths and theories.

you can't get back to the heart of the signal if you keep adding more ontop of too much



What we do when trying to fix by adding too much to already too much is even more loss of signal.

For myself I don't really look at it as competition as much as a difference in approaches. What I try to do, and is probably what rubs some people wrong Laughing , is to try to find the heart of the signal and see how far off of it I am to either side and give the option for more or less, or should I say "the taste factor".



I try not to start out with too little or too much of anything but do my best to get in that range. One of the tricks to knowing if I am in that range is to be able to hear and feel if a material is containing most of the signal's full range. If not it will never produce what makes a piano sound different from a guitar, "harmonics".

As you can see by my middle chart I feel that high end audio is way off to the too much distorting starting place and unless they start with a lot less mass, stress and tension they will never be able to play a wide range of music without a lot of trouble.

Big and simple test again is, are the people in high end audio design world making systems that you can stand way off the side and still have music or do you have to sit right in a small sweet spot? This is the quickest way to tell if someone has started off point.

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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:32 am


Hi Michael

Maybe Sonic is thick, I don't understand any of this. It just may be too high for me. I cannot see from this where the right point is determined between too much and too little unless it is another way of saying there are distortions that choke the music (that is take away something from the signal) and distortions that add to the music (that is adding what was not there in the first place).

Hey, Robert has the new speaker arrived yet?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:31 pm

Hi Sonic

Lets look at the distorted signal.

The heart of the signal is when you have 20 -26,000 hz playing with all of the harmonics in place. It's when the signal is at it's fullest point, nothing added to, or taken away from.

That heart does or should exist in every part or piece that the audio chain has. (I'm talking about the mechanics here)

here's another visual



The first glass is blockage because part of the signal is missing. The third glass is blockage because there is too much mass being added to the orginal signal. The middle glass is the heart of the signal, no blockage (original signal).

Now lets look at amplification. Electrical, mechanical and acoustical amplification can all be made without distortion.



I think this where some audiophiles may get messed up. Amplifying is not distortion. Amplifying with too little or too much is.

In the last picture both glasses have the heart (original) signal (the full signal). Their content is exactly the same, the bigger one just has more of the same signal and you can see through the glass without any distortion or blockage to the other side. No matter from what angle you look through the signal host (the glass) you will see the other side without part of the signal missing or too much signal blocking the see through.

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Robert Harrison



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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:30 am

Hey, folks,

 The new speakers arrived today. The first decision was how to handle the stand/speaker interface. This particular stand is shaped so that when the monitor is placed on top, it looks like one floorstanding unit. The stand appears to be MDF. It was designed with a base which it screws onto and then there are optional spikes to screw onto the bottom of the base. I opted to leave the base off and screw the spikes into where the base screws would go. These screws would only go slightly in, so I left them just snug enough to allow vibration without the whole thing tumbling down.

 Little rubber discs were provided to go between the speaker and the stand, but I left them out. There was also a wooden plate that was designed to hold the speaker to the stand, screwing the top end into the speaker and the bottom end into the stand. I left this out, also.

 I placed the speakers/stands centered on the platforms so they are pretty much where the dipole panels were, allowing that they take up less overall space, centered on the room's length and a foot or so off the side walls.

 Oh, I hate break-in periods! Haven't had to live through one in years. One always hopes that "out of the box" the sound will be a revelation, but I wasn't hearing much to excite me. So, I just have to buck up and let nature take its course, as I knew I would.

 I had to move the platform with the player and receiver forward a bit so the speaker cable would reach, as I had cut those for the Magnepans which had their inputs on the bottom near the floor. Immediately, I noticed the right speaker calling attention to itself, with this being less so on the left. Must be this room and that soffit. Maybe if I treated the first reflection point on the ceiling there, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk?

 Seriously, though, the manufacturer's own recommendation is for at least 50 hours of play for a break-in, so let's see what happens later on, shall we?
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:54 pm

Hi Robert

Yep, breakin is something else, but for me doing it so often I kinda like to listen to the process. Have you checked to see if the speaker has a driver gasket on both the woofer and tweater?

Looking forward to pictures.

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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:30 pm

Hey, Mr. Green,

 Here are pics of the new speakers:


New speakers 10 2013 1 by ozonerman, on Flickr
Left channel speaker on matching stand, spikes underneath stand sitting on platform.


New speakers 10 2013 2 by ozonerman, on Flickr
Close up of front face: Four screws on each driver. Holes in corners were for grill, there are little rubber pieces still in those holes. No other screws visible.


New speakers 10 2013 3 by ozonerman, on Flickr
The five-way binding posts on the rear, with a hole much bigger than Mr. Green's cables. I had better run out and buy some 10 gauge cables, hadn't I, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk? The flared port is visible above binding posts and the hole beneath the posts was for the wooden plate which was designed to connect the speaker to the stand. There is a screw still in the stand where the other end of the plate was supposed to go. I left the screw in and loosened it; it's the closest thing to a tuning bolt I have.
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:20 pm


Hi Robert

On a preliminary basis, how do they sound? What do these speakers do well, what is lacking?

At this point have you identified anything they are capable of that you wish your Magneplanars would deliver but didn't?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:52 pm

Hey, Sonic,

 What do I always say? "Six of one, half a dozen of another." With only a couple of hours a day, break-in may not be for a while. I do notice more vibration in the air and I'm not talking chest thumping bass, just a general sense of air vibration. More is happening towards the ceiling, also. I should have just let it be, but I suspended a tuning strip from one of the rails between the TV and the speaker plane. I got hold of a piece of plywood from where I work that was being used as a temporary counter top; when the new one came in, the wood was up for grabs. It's about 5 feet long and 2 feet wide. I put it standing up longways behind my listening chair. If Mr. Green has a suggestion of a better location or orientation, I would be glad to try it.

 I did put on the XLO Test CD last night and that mono out-of-phase "Stormy Weather" track still exhibits that right rear wall splash of bass energy when most other frequencies spread around the room as they should. Will I ever figure out how to tune this away?

 I suppose it would help if I disclosed that I was still mucking with the planars before the new speakers arrived. I put 2 cardboard tubes standing on clothespins in each front corner and the ersatz Aeroplanes near the front wall between the corners and the TV, angled towards me. I figured to leave those there and then at a later date see what subtracting them does. Perhaps I should have started with a clean slate of just the RT Squares, but I get restless. Reading about Mr. Green's adventures psyches me up to try things. With the TuneLand Archives lost in cyber-space, I have been re-reading his old posts (along with those of Jim Bookhard and Bill Wilkins) on the AVS Forum. You should check these out, Sonic, because back then Mr. Green had an apartment in Nashville, Tennessee that had concrete.
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:15 pm

Hey, everybody,

 Recent revelations from Mr. Green that a concrete basement floor over damp ground is a MAJOR detriment to "guitars in the neighbors yard" had me re-thinking which direction I should take with The Tune. My original charter to Mr. Green was to simply jazz up my existing system. Well, I wound up going far beyond that. So now, if I truly cannot get away from sweet spot listening and making the walls disappear (without adding a wooden floor over the existing one), then I must make the best with what I have.

 Here are some things I have done recently. I cut down the number of RT Squares to only the three along the front wall where it meets the ceiling. I brought in some freebie (i.e. discarded) wood planks. The two smaller matching ones I have laying lengthwise along each speaker, on the platforms, leaning against the wall. I took the spikes off the speaker stands and have them sitting directly on an MDF shelf which sits directly on the platform. A larger plank is sitting on the floor behind my chair (which is still sitting on a makeshift platform consisting of a discarded desk top), leaning against the wall (which it touches but is out free from the closet doors), standing straight up.

plank and platform by ozonerman, on Flickr

large plank behind chair by ozonerman, on Flickr
 Seeing as I now have smaller speakers, I wondered if I needed both strands of Mr. Green's cables, so I disconnected one strand from each speaker terminal (although I did not do this at the receiver end). If this seems to be beneficial, Mr. Green, should I untwist the stands so I have only one going to each terminal? Look closely at this picture and you will see one strand on each connector hanging down and away.

speaker cable connection by ozonerman, on Flickr
 With all this talk of wood under components, I also took Mr. Green's spiked tuning platforms from underneath the player and receiver and put in some of his little wooden blocks, 3 each. On the player, there are 2 blocks under the front corners and a third centered on the rear edge. On the receiver, I have 2 blocks under the left side corners (the side where the transformer is) and one centered on the right edge.

wood block under player corner by ozonerman, on Flickr
 I have never been one to really explain in depth what I am hearing, but the last 2 evenings, things are looking...interesting. I still can't tell the difference between thin and balanced. This room was such a bass monster in the beginning that I find it difficult to get that out of my mind. I blame that on all my years working in movie theaters and having that sound picture in my head.

 Re-reading my posts, I found that Mr. Green liked my experimenting with cardboard tubes. Being the short term memory person I am, I had forgotten this, so I put one each flanking the TV screen, as I had done before. And, being the kind of guy who can't sit still, after listening to CD titled "The Rain Forest" last night, I added a second tube to each side, slightly behind and to the side of the first set and listened to that CD again. Was there a change? Of course. Was it better? I don't know (that pesky "settling" thing again.)Laughing

tubes by ozonerman, on Flickr
 One constant is this: most things I try originally bring more sound to the back of the room (which I immediately like) but after a few days settling, either it diminishes, or I can't appreciate a more subtly enveloping sound (because I do sense THAT). You know, can't see the forest for the trees?
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:59 pm

Hi Robert

Yes, if you like the sound convert the cable to type one. However it's also kinda interesting to see this setup with only the one hooked up. An interesting magnetic field or maybe even shield your making there around the cable.

good to see you Cool 

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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:25 am

Hey Robert

To test Type 1 cabling, why not just remove one pair of cables, say the -ve and then connect the other one to + and - at the speaker and amplifier end. This will avoid you having to bend one wire on each of the cables and any interference from the disconnected wire.

From what Sonic experienced a long time ago, your system will need to the T1 ready for this to work, meaning it will take a certain level of tuning and unblocking.

When I went from T3 down to T1 before my system had been freed up, I lost bass weight, images got hi-fi analytical but were artificial and spaced out. Sonic went back to T3 fast.

But when the system was ready, T1 gave weight and slam and a wholeness which I am now enjoying.

What is the initial effect of your T1-like test?

Give the single cable idea I suggested a try -- how does it sound? How does it sound compared to the one-wire-disconnected-and-bent-away approach?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:28 pm

Hey, Sonic,

It's the simple things that always escape me. Thanks for the advice. It makes sense and I will try it soon. It will be especially handy since my original cut lengths of cable now come up short going to the left channel speaker since the terminals are now a few feet from the floor unlike the connectors on the Magnapans which were near the floor, which promotes laziness in me from trying to move the speakers a little at a time to see where they work best. I can take the spare lead from the right channel speaker and have some more room to work with.

Speaking of speaker positions, you are well read: have you ever come across something called The MasterSet speaker setup? I was re-reading Mr. Green's posts on Audio Circle yesterday and one of the people who were trying to get the others to lay off dissing Mr. Green mentioned that similar dissing had occurred on The MasterSet thread. It was late in the day and I only read the first couple of pages on what turned out to be about 3 threads on MasterSet. There are actually mentions of equalizing the pressure in the room and how this setup can accomplish that. One doesn't hear that too often outside of TuneLand. There are claims that after doing this, the sweet spot widens to where you don't have sit "with your head in a vise," as some have put it.

I would like to hear the thoughts of yourself, Mr. Green or anyone else in these here parts about this technique. I don't particularly care for how they propose you begin, with speakers up against the front wall and sitting in an equidistant triangle from them; that would have me sitting on top of my component platform! But, there must be a way of adapting it. They mention moving only one speaker until a spot is found that minimizes certain bass resonances, presumably with speakers which otherwise can't be tuned. I guess this is why Mr. Green's speakers are easier to work with because the resonance can be tuned no matter where they are placed. There's more, of course, but I haven't read that far yet. Check it out and let's discuss it.
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:04 pm


Greetings Robert

Sonic looked into Master Set. There is a fair bit of discussion out there. From what I read, it is a rather laborious process:

a. We start with the speakers at the front wall (where the Long Wall is preferred), toed in to the listening spot, where you set everything in an equilateral triangle, where your listening seat is at least 2 ft from a wall.

b. Then with a recording that has a steady bass, move one speaker forward 6 inches at a time till the sound pulls into the forward speaker, this assumes a pressure zone has been activated. Then the speaker is moved around in tiny amounts (1/4 inch or so) till the bass strong and even. After that the now forward speaker is bolted down, then the other speaker is moved to roughly the same point forward and moved around.

c. By now, the speakers will be forward in the room and the triangle is not longer equilateral. If you wish to maintain this, the chair is moved....then a different set of PZ are activated because the one round the listening seat has immense effect.

d. At this stage, things may go swimmingly or the set up falls apart and the whole process starts over.

Sonic's view of starting from the front wall is that there are several zones along the way forward that may be OK for bass but no good for imaging, width etc. You have to know what the Tune is out to achieve to find the right zone because we are not just aiming for bass linearity.

With the Tune, you start with the premise to get the most out of the PZs for bass, girth, volume, imaging etc and as I understand from Michael we start from the mid-length point regardless of whether the long or short wall is preferred or feasible. The speakers are initially set close to the side walls, and the adjustment inward and back and forth starts from there.

I would like to hear from Michael again why the midpoint of a room is best when conventional audiophile theory says it is the worst possible place because all room nodes are nastiest there.

I think this is more feasible and gets us closer to where the PZs that work best likely sit. Of course, there will be the exceptional room that causes every rule to go off the rails and everyone has to shout "Michael!"

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:11 pm

Hey, Sonic,

 After further reading, I have found that there are a couple of versions of this process which was begun by Sumiko as a special proprietary procedure only taught to their dealers, who would then use it to set up their products in customers' homes. On another forum other than Audio Circle, a poster listed a process which he gleaned from yet another internet source, then in later posts he then claimed to have been erroneous. He also was contacted by someone from Sumiko (or a dealer) and pretty much told to cease and desist. Yet, I think on Audio Asylum, another poster lays out a procedure known as The Iron Chef speaker placement which he claims to have gotten direct from the owner of Sumiko, although I don't think he mentions specifically having permission to do so. To further add to this confusion, there is a website called myspeakersetup.com in which the guy there claims to have been personally taught this procedure and lays it out with his own refinements. It's like trying to figure out who is the "Michael Green" and who is the knock-off.

 As I said, what attracted me to research this was the claim that the resultant sweet spot is virtually non existent, something Mr. Green is always able to accomplish which I never can. And, the claim continues, this can be achieved without room treatment AND using whatever one has in the way of speakers (including dipolar panels) and components. But, since the versions vary, who has it right? One guy says start with the speakers facing straight forward and THEN toe them in. Another claims that the toe-in is mandatory and must be done from the start. One claims that at a certain point, the so-called "anchor" speaker (the one you begin moving out from the wall first) will reach a point where the other acoustically disappears (and then reappears after a further movement) while another guy doesn't mention this "helpful hint" at all. The fellow on Audio Circle confuses me as he states that the sound will all around the room, yet in a later post says the soundstage stays between the speakers. That's a red flag for me, or at least a yellow flag. They do seem to all agree that a song called "The Ballad of the Runaway Horse" by Ron Wasserman and Jennifer Warnes MUST be used to do this set-up, which does strike me as hilarious. The myspeakersetup.com then adds that a Hootie and the Blowfish recording then be used to make the singer's voice appear to be 5' 9" from the floor by "raking" the speaker upward. Yeah, you're right, Sonic, laborious it is!

 I'm still not clear on why one HAS to start with sitting in an equal triangle, although I don't think the myspeakersetup guy goes along with that. I would think any reciprocity would go out the window once you moved ANYTHING, and I haven't seen anyone say that they stayed with their seat in that spot afterward, claiming, as I said, that sitting anywhere will sound good with a clear centered image. This latter point only seems to be possible, so they say, with toe-in, which I have been doing without for some time. I might also point out that the Audio Circle guy (I think he's the one) mentions sound being spherical, but only in a straight line from the drivers.scratch 

 I'm not dissing this technique. God knows, Mr. Green's techniques get ridiculed all the time, and we know they work. Bottom line: will I try this? Maybe with the Magnapans in the other room, otherwise only if it can be adapted to the central pressure zone where my speakers are now in the smaller room.
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:02 am


Hi Robert

There are many audiophile theories on how to place speakers as the starting point. MasterSet appears to be the labor intensive.

Before Sonic got into the Tune, a good starting point was the Cardas system. The "Pearson" Rule of Thirds never worked for me and had the speakers too close to each other.

The British Rule of Thirds was even stranger -- draw diagonal lines from front RH corner to rear LH conerer (and LH to RH). Measure length of each diagonal and put speakers at the 1/3 points.

Give the Cardas, just remember it is a starting point. Then move the speakers 3" further apart/closer/forward/back, set a direction then another inch or two till everything clicks into place.

I was on an adjusted Cardas set up until I met Mr Green.

Michael -- could you go over again why the 1/2 way point is best?

Sonic

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Robert Harrison



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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:10 am

Hey, Sonic,

 When you haven't heard from Mr. Green in a few days, it probably means he's working on Bill333's tunable room again.

 We had some hairy storms go through these parts last Sunday. I unplugged my player and receiver until I got home from work. Then, I went ahead and untwisted the speaker cable so I only have one lead to each terminal. I preferred this to having to switch leads until I was sure of polarity. Then again, I didn't mark the receiver's plug, which Mr. Green swapped out for one of his, before I pulled it out of the wall, so without that bigger blade as a guide, I may have changed the polarity of the power cable.

 At any rate, I liked the results, to a degree. It was airy without being fatiguing. Maybe lacking in some bass. Over the next couple of nights, I watched some movies. One of them had some of the dialog hard panned left and right and guess where the voices came from in those instances? Plastered right on the speakers. Despite liking the results otherwise, and being one who constantly ignores the rule of a few days settling, I slightly moved the left channel speaker a couple of times. This resulted in the CDs I listened to the last two evenings having more bass but less room filling and delightful as on Sunday and Monday. So, I'm going to refrain from further moves for a while to see what I have now.

 I tried the Cardas formula a couple of years back with the Magnapans in the bigger room, as he has fornulas for direct radiators as well as dipoles. It put the speakers close to the entertainment center I used to have in the front of the room. Soundwise, it was kind of dark sounding so I abandoned that pretty quick. Since becoming involved fully with The Tune, I haven't gone back to that, especially when one has to consider moving platforms as well as the speakers and now, in my case, the stands as well. As far as slight movements this way and that, one can do that from the room center position.

 I may eventually put on that dreaded "Stormy Weather" mono out-of-phase track and have a go at that again, trying to get the sound to be as diffuse as possible. From the great many times I have done this in the past, you can hear the saxophone change from grungy to more civil sounding depending on the exact position, which also applies to the woman's voice. But, as I have crabbed about constantly, I can never get that ONE note on the stand up bass to not BOOM on the right rear wall. I have also been reticent to start mucking with toe-in since Mr. Green never seems to need any.
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:02 am


Hi Robert

If your system doesn't loose girth and bass, your set up is Type 1 ready. Sonic has some fear of the descriptor "airy" because when I hear sound balance that I find appropriate for the word, it ended up as a thinness and lack of girth.

Of course you might be describing something different. Let it settle and see what your ears tell you.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:14 pm

Hey, everybody,

 After that mention of "airiness," I moved the speakers back to room length center. The result was the opposite, with more bass but almost kind of muddy.

 Watching "Lethal Weapon 2," I was reminded of how I noticed certain film companies had a flavor to their movies' soundtracks. Warner Bros., the producer of "Lethal," always did have a darker sound where as Paramount had this thing I called "The Paramount Horns," wherein the horn section of the orchestra always exhibited a sort of intermodulation distortion which made the horns sound like they were being processed through a fuzz box.

 The same evening, I next watched a Paramount release, "Star Trek: Generations," the one where Captains Kirk and Picard were able to meet and join each other for an adventure. Now that I think of it, I didn't hear "The Paramount Horns." It could be a function of the multiple speaker arrays in movie houses, although I do recall hearing that in my former media room back in my multi-channel days. I guess you're just asking for it with multiple speakers? At any rate, this film didn't sound as dark as "Lethal."

 Now these two titles were played off my laptop computer, so it was in the room, on a TV tray, hooked up to the Sherwood with an adapter cable. I took this set-up out of the room and watched the Harrison Ford film "Witness" on DVD. The music involved synthesizers and had mucho bass which rolled around the room. Overall, better than the sound from the computer (and those files were heavily compressed).

 A couple of more evenings of this, with the CDs played (besides the movies) not sounding that great to me, I got ahold of a tape measure, which I haven't done in ages, and moved the speakers a half inch further toward the front wall (away from me). This opened things up and I have been leaving this alone for a few days. On one of those "Pure New Age Moods" CDs, the sound created sort of a sphere in the room, not quite touching the corners but going in a circle to the front wall and around my head.

 As to my constant recent mentions of relatively quick set speaker positioning, I haven't gone into that. As I said, it would get complicated with platforms and anyway what's wrong with the room's center pressure zone, especially to goose the bass response of monitor speakers? Mr. Green has being just that with Mini-Mods.
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:30 am

Hi Robert

Lately I've been listening to some movie soundtracks. Is this something you do often or mostly only with the video too?

I have this thing about long play that interest me more than short songs grouped together. Seems like for me a song never quite goes long enough. I fine theme LP's far more interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:03 pm

Hey, Mr. Green,

When I mention film soundtracks, it always means the soundtrack of the film as it is being viewed, i.e. dialog, music and effects. I haven't bought a straight "original motion picture soundtrack" CD with only the movie's score in ages.

One note about the downmix function of a movie disc player: deep bass response is hit or miss depending on how much the mixers put into the Low Frequency Effects channel. This information is not always added back in when a player takes the discrete multi-channels and mixes them down to two channels. The LFE was meant to augment the bass in the other channels, but I think some mixers may tend to put ALL of the deep bass in that channel, hence some soundtracks sounding leaner than others in my set-up.

Otherwise, I know that bass is there. On some music CDs, I occasionally have a bass wave vibrate that little platform my chair sits on. In fact, I believe the curved back of the chair must be hard card stock if not thin wood (behind the fabric), so that helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:03 pm

Hey, Tunesters,

I'm still around. This winter has been brutal in Chicagoland, what with it either snowing or dropping near or below zero degrees. Due to the turbulence that comes from the air duct above and just to the right of my listening position, I prefer to shut the furnace off for awhile during the length of a CD. That's been hard to do with all the cold weather, 'cause it gets cold in my basement rather quickly. Plus, such a thing probably contributed to me being sick twice in the last three months. I NEVER do that while watching a DVD. I'm REALLY looking forward to some real springtime. Alas, another cold week ahead in this part of the world, with more snow in the forecast!

Mr. Green, has anyone from the Stereophile Forum shown any interest in The Tune? They seem better behaved than some of the Audio Circle bunch.

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PostSubject: Re: Robert Harrison's Tunable System   Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:33 pm

Hi Robert

Great to see you  Very Happy 

I was shivering for you guys all winter  affraid  Man, I am so So SO glad I live here. We had one of the best winters ever that I can remember.

Yes, it has been great being on Stereophile and I really apperiate their being willing to keep things at a friendly Vibe. The other forums could take some lessons from these guys. If the other forums were like this I'm sure in a matter of no time this industry would be walking in different shoes.

And, yes some folks have joined TuneLand and are posting and tuning. Others have gotten a hold of me privately and said how they are enjoying me on Stereophile and are thumbs up with the tune and feel like there has needed to be a change for a long time now but needed someone to come along to stand up for that change.

don't be a stranger  sunny is on the way  Cool 

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