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 Bill333's System

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Sonic.beaver



Posts : 2091
Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Bill333's System   Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:14 am


Greetings Bill333

Oh that post by Sonic…..

Now that we are discussing a specific situation, Sonic might elaborate on the mismatch:

1. damped tonearms and cartridge systems have a signature which to my ears is “dry”, “precise/analytical” in nature and "super-controlled". Some may think this is accuracy and some may say it is a colouration. Do you hear any of this?

2. some cartridges like the Decca London NEED damped arms to work properly but I do not think MM cartridges like the Ortofon 2Ms need this damping. Sonic has tested the Shure M97XE with and without the damping brush and the sound was always more lifelike without damping. I also heard a Denon 103 with damping in a unipivot arm and it sounded hardly alive – mechanical and shifted up in tone would be a good description of the sound.

3. Sonic recalls Michael saying in response to a question from me that damping in arms did not make good sound – I remember Mr Green saying that he tuned a turntable to be an extremely live object. I was referencing this when Sonic made the comment about mismatch.

4. The WTT arm’s damping is not adjustable. I remember the SME arms that had a damper trough and were offered with different sizes of damping paddles so the amount of damping was adjustable. In this case, the amount of damping is fixed.

So go have a listen – turntables are very dynamic things and if the sound is good to your ears, nice and alive, then there is no mismatch. A damped arm will always control the resonances in your system so they never get out of hand and cause mistracking and vinyl damage (a well-matched undamped arm/cartridge won’t either).

The Ortofon 2M Blue stylus is a great upgrade. I use the Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge and am so happy that Sonic has declined opportunities to upgrade to the Ortofon 2M Black, the TLC, the Ortofon Quintet Blue or more expensive MC cartridges. Did someone whisper "EMT TSD 75" Question

Sonic

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Bill333

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PostSubject: Re: Bill333's System   Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:20 pm

Hi Sonic,

I got the replacement TLC cartridge last week and replaced the Ortofon 2M Red with it after warming the system up and listening to the 2M Red to establish a baseline.  Even cold and unbroken in, the TLC has a much richer tone and  a more involving character.  Kind of 'meaty, beaty, big and bouncy'.  By comparison, the Ortofon cartridge sounds flat and uninvolving.  Do you think the elliptical stylus will change that?

Regarding what I hear with the dampened arm - I'll let you in on a little secret, which is that at least half the time I'm running the arm completely undamped.  Even when I do damp it, I have the arm just barely touching the silicone.  Often times, the silicone cup slips down a little bit so that when I come back the next day, the arm is no longer damped.  I definitely prefer the aliveness of that sound, but I think it comes with a small cost in terms of control, especially with bass notes.  The compromise I've adopted is to get the golf ball just barely in contact with the silicone.  Sometimes I wonder if tunees are outliers on the audiophile spectrum in terms of the 'aliveness' we demand from our systems.  I don't know how anyone listens to a range of damping on these arms and then settles on 30% immersion in the silicone.  What I hear when I do that is that it just kills the liveliness, smears inner detail and dampens out low level information to the point where much of it just disappears.  Not acceptable.
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Sonic.beaver



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Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Bill333's System   Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:31 am


Greetings Bill333

Looks you got a resolution to this part of your journey. Very good cheers Now that you can adjust the damping to what is just right for your system then you are good shape Very Happy

Stick with the TLC. The Blue elliptical stylus on the Ortofon 2M body will only improve resolution and details particularly in the upper mids and highs compared to the spherical Red. It will not change the character which you describe as "flat and uninvolving". TLC definitely and worth a thought for Sonic's system too.

Sonic
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Bill333

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PostSubject: Re: Bill333's System   Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:40 pm

Hi Sonic,

I think you might like the TLC. From talking to Don Better (the Shindo dealer), it seems to be gaining a reputation as the EMT TSD 15's little brother. Same kind of sound, just not quite as much. And a lot less expensive.
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Sonic.beaver



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Join date : 2009-09-18

PostSubject: Re: Bill333's System   Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:02 am


If the TLC is the EMT TSD 15 Junior this is a good suggestion indeed Bill333 Very Happy

Sonic checked and it is available here! A bit pricey in this town but compared to the EMT......

Will probably get TLC cartridge after I wrap up my experiments with the doors.
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